Anyone else losing with their small pocket pairs? [Archive]

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CourtesyFlush

04-22-2005, 10:26 AM

I am doing dreadfully with my small pocket pairs. After about 12k hands (possible sample size issue), I am losing .3-.6(!) with 22-55. Even if I am running bad with these pairs, these are horrible results. Most of the 12k hands are .5/1, and I have been calling in EP fairly liberally with these pairs...big mistake?

jrz1972

04-22-2005, 10:32 AM

Small (and medium) pockets are high-variance hands, in the sense that you suffer a ton of 1 and 2 SB losses while occasionally dragging a big pot when you make your set. You probably need more than 10k total hands for your winrate on this particular subset to settle down.

Over ~40k hands, pairs 88 and below are just a little on the plus side for me. Ironically, 88 and 22 are both the worst of the group, with 33 being among the best. That's variance for you.

I tend to think of these hands as being like A-rag-suited. Profitable, but only marginally so.

Dave G.

04-22-2005, 11:06 AM

You may be doing what I used to do with these, cold calling too many raises preflop with not enough people already in the pot. If you do hit your set, without those extra people in the pot, you won't get paid off enough for your extra investment to be worthwhile.

Also, if it's folded to you in LP, you should probably just dump your small pair, unless you want to take it against the blinds for a steal.

k000k

04-22-2005, 11:13 AM

HajiShirazu

04-22-2005, 12:04 PM

At .5/1 these have to be profitable unless you're calling raises with them and such or playing them in bad situations. Limp UTG, after limpers, but fold if you're in MP and it's folded to you (55 or less, of course.) My advice would be to flop more sets and lose fewer times when you do flop one.

CourtesyFlush

04-22-2005, 12:13 PM

I don't think I have cold-called one raise with 22-55.

LALDAAS

04-22-2005, 12:16 PM

after 10k hands all pocket pairs are in the green...guess i am running good. Yes I will call a raise if I have alrady limped and it is one bet back to me.

jaxUp

04-22-2005, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I have cold-called one raise with 22-55.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll cold call all day if there's enough limpers/coldcallers.

milesdyson

04-22-2005, 12:35 PM

My pocket pairs in general are getting owned. Over 20k hands at Party, I'm at 0.48 BB/hand for AA-22, and most of the small ones are losing. It's just been the case that my sets either lose big pots or win small ones. Here are the stats, for fun:

AA 2.29
KK 2.10
QQ 1.12
JJ 0.02
TT (0.15)
99 0.08
88 0.78
77 (0.02)
66 0.74
55 (0.30)
44 0.09
33 (0.26)
22 (0.03)

Aaron W.

04-22-2005, 12:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am doing dreadfully with my small pocket pairs. After about 12k hands (possible sample size issue), I am losing .3-.6(!) with 22-55. Even if I am running bad with these pairs, these are horrible results. Most of the 12k hands are .5/1, and I have been calling in EP fairly liberally with these pairs...big mistake?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're looking at the wrong data. What you should be doing is looking at how much you're losing on individual hands. Here's what I have for 22 (playing $1/2):

-$14 = 1 time (set over set)
-$11 = 1 time (flush beat my set)
-$5 = 1 time (Edit: Ooops -- had it wrong the first time, this was a steal attempt from the BB HU against a SB limper - his A3s caught a 3 on the flop and he called my flop and turn bets )
-$3 = 1 time
-$2 = 6 times
-$1 = 14 times
$0 = 13 times (sometimes it was raised preflop, other times I was in a raise/fold situation and chose to fold -- blind-stealing was something I used to be afraid to do)
+$5.75 = 1 time (set took it down on the turn)
+$15 = 1 time (tons of preflop limpers, nobody caught anything)

Overall: -$38.25 over 39 hands = -.98 BB/hand

I'm not concerned and I hope you can see why.

grjr

04-22-2005, 02:54 PM

Hey, 22 is great. With what other hand can you win with 2 high? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
6 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (6.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 2h 2s (two pair, jacks and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.25 BB.

KCheng

04-22-2005, 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, 22 is great. With what other hand can you win with 2 high? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
6 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (6.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 2h 2s (two pair, jacks and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.25 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, nice!