Request for hands: Ace high makes it to showdown

[econom1st]

A man wiser than I once said:

[ QUOTE ]

Officer McGruff reminds you to shoot from the HIP when playing short-handed:

High card power
Initiative
Position


[/ QUOTE ]

When stealing from the button or the cutoff, we choose hands with high card power. Some of the value of a hand like ace-rag is that it has the potential to win unimproved at a showdown.

I am almost never using that potential! It's very easy for me to fold after the flop when I don't have a pair. My went to showdown at the Party 5/10 6max is currently at 30.8%. I wish to become a little more confident about showing down ace high. Can you guys post a few hands where you feel this is the correct play? All example hands, no matter how boring or routine, would be appreciated.

[Subfallen]

Here's one I played recently, don't have the exact hand history but I remember it mostly. BB in the hand loved to bluff, especially against me, and was pretty straightforward.

Pre-flop:
Folded to me with AJ in the SB, raise, call.

Flop: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif
- I bet, BB calls.

Turn: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif
- I check, BB bets, I call.

River: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif
- I check, BB bets, I call.

My thoughts were that I very likely had the best hand on the turn, but didn't want to get blown off it, plus give BB an opportunity to bluff. The river call was player-dependent, but one I would make some of the time without a read as well.

[JohnnyHumongous]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
CO has Ac Jc (high card, ace).
Hero has Ah Ks (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.75 BB. </font>

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ad Qc (high card, ace).
Button has 5h Ah (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.50 BB. </font>

[Subfallen]

Here's another, perhaps more controversial and quite possibly wrong. MP loves to check-raise the PFR, especially me, with draws...very important point.

Pre-flop:
- UTG folds, MP limps, I raise with KQ, everyone else folds but MP.

Flop (5.5 SB): 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif
- MP checks, I bet, MP check-raises, I 3-bet.

Turn (5.75 BB): 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
- MP checks, I check

River: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif
- MP bets, I call!?, putting him on TQ and 8T at least 20% of the time.

[shaundeeb]

why not raise and blow him off his hand instead of calling with K high.

[Subfallen]

Because there's no value in raising---i.e. I will never be called by a worse hand, and probably only fold out hands I beat already. (Specifically TQ and 8T.)

[AlwaysWrong]

Because nobody in the history of 6-max has put a bet in on the river and folded to a raise, at least on Party. I'm not sure the fold button even shows up.

[AlwaysWrong]

This is one from today. Normally I'd raise the turn here against the type of player that I thought my opponent was (bad LAG) but he was shortstacked enough that I felt my raise had no fold equity (he had $15 left after his turn bet). Possibly a mistake.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $5.
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.70 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.70 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.70 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has Jd Ac (one pair, sevens).
Hero has Qs Ad (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.70 BB. </font>

[toke]

I think you made a (minor) mistake by not raising turn. It's true that you have probably zero folding equity and that's excactly why you should raise. He is going to call your turn raise with virtually any two cards in hopes of having live cards to pair. But if you just smoothcall turn he might check-fold river when he has absolutely no hand (JT/QT or something) saving him $15.

[fyodor]

Here's a commmon one:

5 handed Party 10/20 I open raise A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif on the button. Only the BB calls

4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif
check bet call

7/images/graemlins/club.gif
check check (sometimes I bet, sometimes I check - I wouldn't do either 100%)

7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
bet call (I call here 100% of the time - I showed weakness on the turn and expect him to bet with anything)

He turns over K/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif and MHIG

[MrWookie47]

This has been a very good thread for me. I've just started playing some 1/2 6max, and I think I underestimate somewhat the power of A high. I'll keep my eyes open for more situations like these where I should be showing down. Thanks for all of the good replies.

[Scotch78]

Keep in mind, these were all 5/10 and 10/20 hands.

Scott

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
When stealing from the button or the cutoff, we choose hands with high card power. Some of the value of a hand like ace-rag is that it has the potential to win unimproved at a showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks OP for bringing up an interesting topic and thanks to the posters who provided examples of Unimproved Ace-high hands. I'd like to follow-up with a question.

The OP mentioned the potential of Ace-rag hands. All the examples were of AJ or better. Interesting hands, but Jack, Queen and King kickers are not exactly rags. Does anyone recommend playing with Ace-mid or Ace-low kicker in Shorthand or Blind Stealing situations. What is the lowest rag you like to play with and in what situation? In concert with the OP's request, any examples would be appreciated.

[cjx]

You raise on the button with your A6o, sb folds, bb calls.

flop could be K32, 995, 872, it goes
check, bet, call
check, bet, call
check check and you take it down vs a busted draw (flush, OESD, gutter) random overs (sometimes just a Kx high)

Similarly on a scary paired board or a board where the flush came in you are against a particularly laggy/bluff type cat you might check the turn behind and call his inevitable river lead because he will often check raise the scary turn. And he will certainly ALWAYS bet the river.

cjx

Hmm, I'm going to amend my post by saying maybe I'm completely wrong. I only have ~12k hands in my new foray into 6 max and sorting chance to steal and raised, went to showdown, with hands A2o to A8o I can't find one single instance of what I just described.