When to laydown TPTK?

[xorbie]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO ($49)
Button ($15.8)
SB ($56.68)
BB ($66.03)
UTG ($25.95)
UTG+1 ($84.45)
MP1 ($19.8)
Hero ($56.46)
MP3 ($29)

Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Preflop: SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $2</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $8</font>, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($20.50) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $25</font>, Hero calls $15.

River: ($70.50) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO pushes for $15.5, Hero calls $15.50.

Final Pot: $86


Let's say PF limp is just to mix it up. Where do you lay this down postflop? CO is pretty aggro, and raises a lot in CO / button preflop. He's also fairly aggro post flop.

[mason55]

Misplayed on every street.

PF you have to raise. Otherwise you can't make a continuation bet because there will be too many people and someone will hit something weird (like the AT that I suspect in this hand).

Flop raise more to like 8-10. Villains response to this will tell you a lot more. But a min-raise to a min-raise is very scary. If you bet bigger and he 3bets you can fold.

Turn you might as well push if you're calling the river bet anyways. No reason to leave 1/6 pot behind, you're not folding for anything on the river.

[xorbie]

Don't know if it helps or not, but villain also double up a somewhat shortish stack a few orbits ago with his KQ against AK when a K flopped. The AK had limped in LP, and CO was in MP at the time.

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
Misplayed on every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. Given how much weakness you showed, I'm not laying this one down, but you're probably facing Aces up.

[xorbie]

Yes, that it was. Perhaps this hand isn't as interesting as I thought, because it was too poorly played.

Let's say Hero raises to $6 on the flop, and CO raises to $12.
SB folds, action to you.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, that it was. Perhaps this hand isn't as interesting as I thought, because it was too poorly played.

Let's say Hero raises to $6 on the flop, and CO raises to $12.
SB folds, action to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still think that $6 is too small. I make it 8-10 meaning villain has to raise to 14-16. If he's a LAG I still probably lay it down. Unless he's super duper LAG he's not 3bet minraising with nothing. In fact I think I fold to any of his 3 bet minraises.

The thing is, if he's a LAG most of his bets are designed to fold you out. This 3bet is designed to keep you in. Coming from a LAG that means you're behind this time. Raise a little more and then you don't feel bad foldingn to his min-raise. As nice as it is to have TPTK against a LAG, I don't know many LAGs that 3bet with nothing.

[xorbie]

My thoughts are pretty much the same. As it turns out, I was actually CO in this hand. MP2 didn't seem very pleased and ended up tilting the rest of his chips to me. I was just wondering where he could have layed this down, but it would have been so much easier if he had just played PF and flop better.

[AllIn3High]

Limping with AK and then going nuts post-flop is just bad, hand from yesterday (convert doesn't like the all-ins /images/graemlins/confused.gif ):

***** Hand History for Game 1928465707 *****
$50 NL Hold'em - Thursday, April 21, 13:32:35 EDT 2005
Table Table 36544 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Iza39 ( $56.25 )
Seat 3: wed1076 ( $61.7 )
Seat 4: billybyte ( $45.5 )
Seat 5: WGUIL10282 ( $68.15 )
Seat 7: balz0 ( $61.92 )
Seat 8: Gerdahitman ( $43.56 )
Seat 9: DeSever ( $98.93 )
Seat 6: <font color="blue">Hero</font> ( $49 )
Seat 2: zbailey77 ( $49.5 )
Seat 10: dresface44 ( $15.75 )
zbailey77 posts small blind [$0.25].
wed1076 posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to <font color="blue">Hero</font> [ 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif ]
billybyte calls [$0.5].
WGUIL10282 calls [$0.5].
<font color="blue">Hero</font> calls [$0.5].
balz0 folds.
Gerdahitman folds.
DeSever folds.
dresface44 calls [$0.5].
Iza39 calls [$0.5].
zbailey77 calls [$0.25].
wed1076 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ]
zbailey77 checks.
wed1076 bets [$4].
billybyte calls [$4].
WGUIL10282 folds.
<font color="blue">Hero</font> raises [$12].
dresface44 is all-In [$15.25]
Iza39 folds.
zbailey77 folds.
wed1076 is all-In [$57.2]
billybyte folds.
<font color="blue">Hero</font> is all-In [$36.5]
** Dealing Turn ** [ J/images/graemlins/club.gif ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6/images/graemlins/club.gif ]
<font color="blue">Hero</font> shows [ 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif ] three of a kind, nines.
WGUIL10282: lol
dresface44 doesn't show [ 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif ] a pair of jacks.
wed1076 shows [ K/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif ] a pair of kings.
wed1076 wins $12.7 from side pot #2 with a pair of kings.
<font color="blue">Hero</font> wins $66.15 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, nines.
<font color="blue">Hero</font> wins $50.6 from the main pot with three of a kind, nines.

[fuzzbox]

How is that different from raising with AK and going nuts ?

Same result n'est pas ?

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]
How is that different from raising with AK and going nuts ?

Same result n'est pas ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm...yeah..

What I meant was that now he not only has to worry about my holding, but also what the short stack might be pushing with (could easily have been 2 pairs).