Too cute of a laydown vs Andy?

[Fnord]

Villian is kinda Passive
Andy is well, Andy...

PokerStars Game #1562366487: 7 Card Stud Limit ($2/$4) - 2005/04/21 - 20:42:58 (ET)
Table 'Penelope'
Seat 1: cardmanfrank ($39.50 in chips)
Seat 2: jockey7 ($28.25 in chips)
Seat 3: don5991 ($116.50 in chips)
Seat 5: finsfan7 ($42.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Andy B ($100.25 in chips)
Seat 7: HenryFnord ($147 in chips)
Seat 8: MilaN ($78.25 in chips)
cardmanfrank: posts the ante $0.25
jockey7: posts the ante $0.25
don5991: posts the ante $0.25
finsfan7: posts the ante $0.25
cardmanfrank said, "nice river"
Andy B: posts the ante $0.25
HenryFnord: posts the ante $0.25
MilaN: posts the ante $0.25
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to cardmanfrank [6c]
Dealt to jockey7 [9d]
Dealt to don5991 [Jd]
Dealt to finsfan7 [9c]
Dealt to Andy B [Tc]
Dealt to HenryFnord [Qh Ah 5h]
Dealt to MilaN [4c]
MilaN: brings-in low $1
cardmanfrank: folds
jockey7: folds
don5991: folds
finsfan7: raises $1 to $2
Andy B: raises $2 to $4
jockey7 leaves the table
HenryFnord: folds

[TheShootah]

I think I would take a card off, since villain is unlikely to reraise. If Andy thought the other guy has 9's or something, he could be reraising with a decent range of hands that you can beat down the line. If he has tens you are problem in decent shape.

[Andy B]

I call, if only so cardmanfrank can lecture me some more about chasing flush draws.

[Andy B]

Andy has also been known to play his "C" game when playing low-limit on-line.

[TheShootah]

Was I about right Andy?

[Andy B]

Yeah, I could easily make this play with split Tens, in which case he's got a couple of over-cards to my pair.

[TheShootah]

Yes! I have been making a serious effort to bring up my stud game for gambling in the summer. Way better than HE.

[lane mcbride]

If the passive villain would fold to a reraise, I reraise. if Andy's got split tens you're about even money. and it'll be easy to get away from your hand if you miss or he improves visibly. if he's got a cncld pair other than aces, you're still not too bad off. with a reraise you'll likely buy free cards later on... and you may be able to get more value out of your flush if you make it. A lot of cards could improve your hand and a five would most likely buy the pot. then again, I like to make aggressive plays like this so I get value out of my premium hands later on... just my two cents as a relative noob.

[CarlosChadha]

Hi All,

This post is similar to a post about 2 weeks back where someone played a premium flush weakly. Folding is a huge mistake here, as your totally live hearts, As, and Qs make you more (often much more) than a 33% favorite to win in a 3 way pot (even if one of your opponent has wired Ks), so calling is a better option than folding. But the best option is definitely raising because you can probably get it heads up with the probable split Ts when you are even money (or a slight favorite) and have a lot of dead money in the pot. Even if the 9 doesn't fold, that is fine because you are getting more money in the pot with the best hand. But the other HUGE reason to 3 bet here is because even though statistically you are even money with split Ts, you actually have a large advantage over him because your hand is so well hidden, while his is transparent, plus you have position. He will almost certainly put you on a wired big pair and check to you on 4th, which you should bet no matter what, then when he checks again on 5th if you haven't hit 1 of your 9 pair cards, 10 flush cards, or an open running pair, you can just check behind and take a free card. If you do hit one of your pair outs he will probably still call you to the river, if you make an open pair he will probably fold the best hand, and if you have a 4 flush on 5th you can bet again, and take a free card on 6th if the flush doesn't come. Note that any card that makes you lose position either gives you a pair or a 3rd overcard, improving your hand, so you would want to bet out anyway. Lastly, as it has been pointed out, if you only ever 3 bet with a small door card and wired big pair or rolled up hands you become extremely easy to read.

The moral of this is that while extremely tight play will make money at these limits with very loose players, if you play to tightly or too passively you are leaving a lot of money on the table. Also, as you move up in limits, you'll notice that everyone else also can play tight, so tightness alone will only help you break even at best.

Regards,
Carlos

[Michael Emery]

I'm 3-betting if I can get it heads-up with that fish named Andy. If I dont think its likely that the 9 will drop (which it usually isnt at this limit I'm sure) I'd just call, no way I'm folding.

Mike Emery

[CarlosChadha]

Hi Mike,

The 9's dead hand makes it more likely than normal that he will fold for 2 bets cold. But, as I already mentioned, even if you are 100% sure he will call, you should still raise because your pot equity is higher than 33% for any hands the opponent's have besides wired As or trips, so you make money with every dollar that goes in the pot. Also taking control of the hand and representing a big wired pair both camolfages your flush and gets your opponents to fold if you make an open pair. Smooth calling here really gives it away that you are on a flush draw since there are no hearts out.

Regards,
Carlos

[PoorLawyer]

that milan guy could cap it though...he is often tossing his stack around.