Overpair against a raise

[djoverpour]

Here is one I guess I should have seen coming...thoughts please.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

[davelin]

Cap pre-flop. Bet the flop.

[atnels]

I cap preflop. QQ is a very strong hand, and preflop 3-bet doesn't always mean AA or KK - actually, far from it at these limits. The hand might have played out differently had you done this.

Given the call, I bet out/reraise the flop - assuming MP2 raises. If MP2 caps it and you respect him as a decent player (you don't mention any reads), then I slow down.

If MP3 is just calling along the whole time, then I'd think about putting him on KK or AA but afraid of the set of jacks.

If three people see the turn, I probably go into check/call mode to get a cheap showdown.

[GoHoosiers]

I'd cap this flop personally....

Bet out the flop and see how they react. That's really the problem most of the time with checking (and calling) It is hard to gauge what your opponent's bets mean. You get a much better idea what a raise to your bet means (or a 3-bet to your raise, or a cap to your 3-bet)

Take MP3 for example. He 3-bet the flop but then slowed way down (just called) to MP2's bet. That's significant. He's probably on overcards.

Bet the flop, and 3-bet if raised. If MP2 caps, then you can call down. If he slows at all (just calls), press him more.


Rich

[djoverpour]

Great Advice guys. By the way the MP2 had JJ for a set on the flop.

[Nick C]

I would have bet the flop, but your flop checkraise does probably represent more strength to your opponents. So when MP2 3-bets, that is a cause for concern (especially since he also raised preflop). However, he could just have, for instance, AJ, and even if you knew he had JJ (or AA or KK), you'd want to stay in, getting 23:1 and closing the action, to chase your set and (fairly weak) backdoor straight and flush outs. (Also, by the way, a hand like A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif can't be ruled out for MP2.)

Anyway, though, once the turn brought no help, I probably would have called down too, while not really expecting to win.

[Buckmulligan]

Jam the pot preflop, and lead the flop. Check raise villian if he is in late position here. By checkraising him in EP, you are encouraging the pot to remain multiway.

[djoverpour]

I guess thats the thing...I just cant fold in this situation but I hate calling it down when I know im in trouble

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess thats the thing...I just cant fold in this situation but I hate calling it down when I know im in trouble

[/ QUOTE ]

There are times when it's best to fold overpairs in largish pots, but it's certainly not something to make a habit of doing. (In fact, more frequently what you'll want to be doing with overpairs is putting in the bets and raises yourself.)

I don't really know how Stars 0.05/0.10 plays, but calling down on the turn and river in this hand looks all right to me.

[djoverpour]

Ill tell you how it plays lol....

Loose as can be. I cant stand it but I dont have the bankroll to move up yet. But loose as it may be, there is still no reason why I shouldnt be crushing this level

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Ill tell you how it plays lol....

Loose as can be. I cant stand it but I dont have the bankroll to move up yet. But loose as it may be, there is still no reason why I shouldnt be crushing this level

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing to keep in mind at loose tables where people play weak hands and then chase whether they have the odds or not is that, while it's more difficult to win hands than it is at tighter tables, you do tend to get paid off well when your hand holds up or you make a big draw.

I agree that playing at such tables can be frustrating when you can't seem to hit a draw or get a hand to hold up, but such tables are generally easier to beat and are generally more profitable (in terms of big bets) than tighter ones.