Being 'taken' is more desireable?

[scotty34]

This question is due to a lot of the responses I saw in this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2202966&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1)

When the guy was asking whether he should bone a new girl before his old g/f tried to get back together with him, a lot of people replied absolutely, as this will just make his old g/f want him more. What is the basis behind this assumption? I know if I wanted to get back with an ex that I had just broken up with, and I found out she started messing around with some other guy within days of us breaking up, I would be pissed as hell. This would surely indicate to me that she got over me in no time at all, and I never really meant much to her in the first place.

If this happened, I would certainly not be getting back together with her anytime soon. I assumed most other guys would feel the same way, but maybe not. Would knowing that your ex immediately hooked up with someone after you broke up with her make you want her back?

Are girls different than guys in this respect, as it actually would cause them to desire their ex more? Any girls want to testify to the accuracy of this?

[Brainwalter]

Jealousy.

[peachy]

if he hooked up with some other girl it would not make me want him more...i would never want to be with him again...but thats just me. Id do his best friend for fun though...or maybe his brother or dad...who knows

[J_V]

In this specific instance, going after the new girl will do nothing but hurt your chances of getting back with your ex. And it will hurt them bad.

90% of people posting on these girls posts are idiots and are just living by old cliche's that sound cool.


A tip for you nerdy youngsters out there : If you fade Dead on all of his girl advice, you'll become the next Brad Pitt.

[Alobar]

everyone wants what they cant have. Especially fruity chicks that like to play mind games like the stupid whore in the other thread

[wh1t3bread]

[ QUOTE ]
if he hooked up with some other girl it would not make me want him more...i would never want to be with him again...but thats just me. Id do his best friend for fun though...or maybe his brother or dad...who knows

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Anna Benson! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[DireWolf]

Hmm, i do not like thinking about my ex getting with my brother or my dad.

[Michael Davis]

As one of the idiots, J_V, we need a book from you. Maybe Mason will publish it.

-Michael

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
In this specific instance, going after the new girl will do nothing but hurt your chances of getting back with your ex. And it will hurt them bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is clearly wrong

[peachy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he hooked up with some other girl it would not make me want him more...i would never want to be with him again...but thats just me. Id do his best friend for fun though...or maybe his brother or dad...who knows

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Anna Benson! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

who is she!??!?! does she look like me?!?! is she from where im from?!??! does she act like me?!?!?!

or just a slut like me???

[Victor]

shes the wife of a pitcher for the mets. she was quoted as saying if she ever caught the dude cheating on her she would [censored] his whole team, groundskeepers, and ballboys, etc.

[Edge34]

http://www.freecelebrities.org/a/Anna-Benson/4big.jpg

[peachy]

[ QUOTE ]
shes the wife of a pitcher for the mets. she was quoted as saying if she ever caught the dude cheating on her she would [censored] his whole team, groundskeepers, and ballboys, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahah yes i know! shes from where im from has an attitude like mine and is overly outspoken like me...i know who she is /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Victor]

so, is hers a typical sentiment of women?

[billyjex]

Women are [censored] up creatures. They want what they can't have.

It's the same thing when a guy already has a GF. More girls will be attracted to him then if he didn't have one.

[peachy]

[ QUOTE ]
so, is hers a typical sentiment of women?

[/ QUOTE ]

more should be like her or me...tell it how it is...express how we feel...not be shy and/or not talk about sex...do what u want...and know u can have anything u want...maybe its just a Georgia thing /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

i woulda said the same thing about mah hubby publicly...wether it be a joke or not

[Blarg]

Some people are responding as if love and desire were rational things. Which they are not. So answers given purely along the lines of "What would sensible people do?" or "What would I like to think of myself or other people doing?" are going to very often fall short.

First, everyone's an individual so there is no one right answer you'll get from anybody. Anything you do in love is a shor in the dark.

That said, there is a lot behind the idea that men and women most definitely are different. Your saying you wouldn't want a woman to be with another guy and that would turn you off -- well, that's a typical guy response. It's the way things work biologically, never mind all the reasoning behind it, because it's just not needed. When it comes to women, though, things are often quite different. Any veneers of civilization and sophistication, or some sort of brainy understanding or touchy feely synchronicity with the other sex may pull in the other direction, but it's the animal layer that comes first and all the other crap that's piled on top of it, not the other way around. The animal speaks first always, and often truest.

One of the most desirable things about men to women is their desirability to other women. If none of her friends want to get it on with you, no matter if you're incredibly good looking or macho or personable or whatever, you've dropped a serious notch in her estimation of your attractiveness. If other women are clearly attracted to you, your stock rises immeasurably.

So on the surface, while a woman may not like the idea of your fooling around, and may even feel it's not worth it to be with you anymore if you do, underlying bioligical imperatives make your suitability and desirability skyrocket if you have sexual value to other women. We tend to take each other for granted when we're with each other for a while, too; pursuit by a member of the opposite sex often immediately ramps up your attractiveness to your partner.

I'm not saying you have to carry things to the final conclusion of intercourse with other women or proposing a concrete program of sleeping around in order to achieve your goal of getting in stronger with your girl. But there are deep-seated biological reasons why women finding you attractive and/or sleeping with you will make you much more attractive to other women. Whether that means you should sleep around, or whether a huge increase in your biological attractiveness will be enough to overcome a possible huge decrease in your attractiveness overall as a person when doing something that angers or disappoints your loved one -- well, certainly nobody on these forums could tell you. You're playing with fire. Doing so might well make you look hotter to your girlfriend whether she realizesit or not or wants to admit it or not; and it might just effectively burn your dick off, too.

[TimM]

Well first of all, he should not be letting the ex do this to him. He might as well lie on the ground and paint "Welcome" on himself. Even if she takes him back, it's only a matter of time before she realizes why she dumped him in the first place - probably because he acts more like a doormat than a man. Ideally he should never go back with the ex, but at least if she sees that he has a spine and that other women want him too, she might have a chance to respect him a bit more.

[J_V]

My book might come out one day. I would love to dispell a lot of myths floating around.

I think I'm in a unique position of going from totally insecure and useless around girls to extremely confident and successful in a very short period of time.

The number one myth is that if you are confident you will get the girls. And its usually a pretty good looking guy, who achieves below his standards and doesn't know it, talking to a guy that hasn't been on a date in months. It's B.S.

Confidence is just a part of the story. You'd be stupid to think there aren't other factors. I know lots of pseudo-confindent guys who can talk to any girl, but never get nowhere. Looks are a factor. While I'm not 100% certain on how big a factor they are, I do know they are not as important with women as they are with men. And there are certainly many factors more important.

The number one factor is perceived social value. The higher your perceived social value is, the higher % of girls you could get. Donald Trump....ugly, yet high perceived social value (not necessarily money, but power, fame, stature, confidence) hottest girls. Obviously, a very extreme case. The beauty is that you really can "learn" your way to boning hot girls if that's what you want to do. It just takes practice.

Now I didn't think of any of this on my own, but I have practiced some of it. I was never anything close to a natural. The less of a natural you are, the harder you have to work at it. If you are gonores or Hiatus_Over, all you have to do is show up.

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the most desirable things about men to women is their desirability to other women. If none of her friends want to get it on with you, no matter if you're incredibly good looking or macho or personable or whatever, you've dropped a serious notch in her estimation of your attractiveness. If other women are clearly attracted to you, your stock rises immeasurably.

So on the surface, while a woman may not like the idea of your fooling around, and may even feel it's not worth it to be with you anymore if you do, underlying bioligical imperatives make your suitability and desirability skyrocket if you have sexual value to other women. We tend to take each other for granted when we're with each other for a while, too; pursuit by a member of the opposite sex often immediately ramps up your attractiveness to your partner.



[/ QUOTE ]

Very true.


[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you have to carry things to the final conclusion of intercourse with other women or proposing a concrete program of sleeping around in order to achieve your goal of getting in stronger with your girl. But there are deep-seated biological reasons why women finding you attractive and/or sleeping with you will make you much more attractive to other women. Whether that means you should sleep around, or whether a huge increase in your biological attractiveness will be enough to overcome a possible huge decrease in your attractiveness overall as a person when doing something that angers or disappoints your loved one -- well, certainly nobody on these forums could tell you. You're playing with fire. Doing so might well make you look hotter to your girlfriend whether she realizesit or not or wants to admit it or not; and it might just effectively burn your dick off, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

he reason why sleeping with the new chick will screw you is that you've already dated this chick, it's not like her schemas of you aren't pretty well set and while she may get off on it a little, she has to overcome the societal implications of taking back an [censored] and someone who didn't care that much about her in the first place.

Bad idea, if you want to get back with her. Now you might want to drop off the idea that you passed on this chick after you get back with your ex.

[TimM]

But isn't confidence a reflection of your own social value?

And if you could somehow manipulate that perceived social value, wouldn't it help?

Doesn't being desired by more women lead to higher perceived social value?

Wouldn't running back to the ex who dumped you lead to lower perceived social value?

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
But isn't confidence a reflection of your own social value?

And if you could somehow manipulate that perceived social value, wouldn't it help?

Doesn't being desired by more women lead to higher perceived social value?

Wouldn't running back to the ex who dumped you lead to lower perceived social value?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. They are correlated, but I think that's too direct. Confidence comes from other areas too, then what you think you are worth.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Running back to anyone that dumps you is bad news. I would never consider it. Unless of course you [censored] up somehow and she's letting you off the hook.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
[t]he reason why sleeping with the new chick will screw you is that you've already dated this chick, it's not like her schemas of you aren't pretty well set and while she may get off on it a little, she has to overcome the societal implications of taking back an [censored] and someone who didn't care that much about her in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why it hasn't been stated already, but he doesn't have to sleep with her. Going out (informally) with the hot chick is +EV in all aspects. He just shouldn't touch..... yet.

[Blarg]

That would require superhuman strength. If he were that mighty and self-contained, he probably wouldn't be here asking us our opinions.

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
if he hooked up with some other girl it would not make me want him more...i would never want to be with him again...but thats just me. Id do his best friend for fun though...or maybe his brother or dad...who knows

[/ QUOTE ]

What a slut /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
That would require superhuman strength. If he were that mighty and self-contained, he probably wouldn't be here asking us our opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Super human strength? Bah! I'm not super human and I can do it. Just beat off like 10 times before you go out. Or take an antiandrogen, british military style bromide tea (urban legend? Not enough time to research), or buy this book: Linky (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/038549162X/ref=ase_deeptrancenow-20/002-5691047-2785613?v=glance&s=books)


EDIT: BTW, all of my close college friends can do this even when drunk. It amazes me how so many people can't control themselves.

[Blarg]

Any guy who takes a girl at her word for what she would do in these circumstances makes the mistake of a) believing she knows for sure herself and that the answer wouldn't entirely change completely dependent on the guy and circumstances, and b) that she would tell you, or anyone, anyway.

[J_V]

Expert play. Be seen, but keep hands off is the brilliant play here.

[nothumb]

If you are really asking why it makes women crazy when you want other women, you need to go meet some women.

Anyway, who cares? It does, fact of life. It doesn't make much sense, but many things women do make even less.

NT

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are really asking why it makes women crazy when you want other women, you need to go meet some women.

Anyway, who cares? It does, fact of life. It doesn't make much sense, but many things women do make even less.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

That's basically what I was trying to ask. Is it actually a 'fact of life'? I have heard the saying about how girls are always more attracted to guys that are with other girls many times. However, I have only heard this from guys, and I was wondering if its actually true, or if we just say that to make ourselves feel better(and possibly as an excuse to ourselves to sleep with other women).

I am aware that women (and men too) are often highly irrational when it comes to things like these, so I know I really can't ask for a concrete explanation of why this is or is not true. I just want to know if its true. I'm sure it's very dependent on the individual, but there should be a general trend.

If you cheat on your girlfriend, she will be absolutely pissed, and should break up with you. She certainly will not be expressing increased desire for you. In a different scenario, if you sleep with another girl a few days after she breaks up with you, she wants you back?

[Blarg]

Maybe your friends have so little charm, especially when they're drunk, that the opportunity doesn't arise? Their possible protests that this isn't the case to the contrary?

[Blarg]

One of the reasons she's getting rid of you in the first place is your sexual and social desirability isn't high enough to overcome what she feels or thinks are your liabilities. Quickly being taken up by other women instantly proves your sexual and/or social desirability is higher than she might have thought, possibly adjusting the math on the equation so that your assets are felt or thought to outweight your liabilities. Now instead of casting off something that weighed her down, she is facing the possibility of losing something that buoys her up. The same guy now looks totally different.

None of this need ever reach the stage of thinking and rational analysis to be true.

[nothumb]

I do think men (people in general really) are generally considered more desirable if they are involved with someone, because it means they are 'in the game' or whatever but also means they are not immediately available. This is more common among younger people methinks, I have seen it diminish somewhat as I get older but not that much and I'm still young.

Anyway, depending on the girl, it can either make them want you more or cause them to lose interest. I think the replies in the other thread were geared towards the way this particular girl sounded. I have dated girls like that and one in particular came knocking my door down after seeing me with other girls, having unceremoniously and rather painlessly dumped me in the past.

I also crashed her car while she was at a family member's funeral. But that was after we already broke up.

NT

[JaBlue]

this isn't about rape?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe your friends have so little charm, especially when they're drunk, that the opportunity doesn't arise? Their possible protests that this isn't the case to the contrary?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not even close. The most charismatic and genetically blessed of my friends are like this (high discipline). In fact, all of my college friends subscribe to the bro's before ho's philosophy. And most of them have been thoroughly tested. I have a friend that flunked out of college and isn't reliable at all. He gets a lot of very good looking women (some of the hottest of our 1,000+ sized high school) yet can't stop cheating on them. He has burnt a lot of bridges because of sex and even lost a wife. He is going to end up an old and lonely man one day. I do not envy him and I simply don't make friends with people that make those kind of mistakes. Still, I don't abandon him as we have been friends from knee high.

Obviously you didn't catch my Sexual Darwinism thread. Amazingly, that guy has much more willpower then I do (and I have a lot) as he turned down a girl that I would of pounded like a heavy bag. And I'm very very picky. Most of my friends are very street smart, and self control in these kinds of situations is common sense IMO.

If there is anyone of my friends that has charm problems it is me. However, even with my lack of "game" I have still managed to turn down with more women then I've slept with. To be honest though, I do regret a few of those. I had three very close female friends that wanted it. They were very innocent and at the time I thought it would of been a bad idea. I no longer talk to any of those three women, many of which I had been friends with for years. To this day I wonder if I was too selective. I was attracted to them, but knew it wouldn't turn into a serious relationship (at least for me). Not an easy situation to say the least.

How is that for discipline? I go to sleep at night knowing my penis didn't screw up a wonderful friendship or scar the mind of an innocent woman, but I also realized that I screwed up the chance to have some incredible sex with a woman I don't talk to anymore anyway.

It [censored] sucks.

BTW, thanks for assuming my friends are losers [censored]. I have given you many complements, what did I do to deserve that comment? Besides me jokingly calling you an [censored], I really do take criticism well. I also respect your opinion, so please speak freely.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard the saying about how girls are always more attracted to guys that are with other girls many times. However, I have only heard this from guys, and I was wondering if its actually true, or if we just say that to make ourselves feel better(and possibly as an excuse to ourselves to sleep with other women).


[/ QUOTE ]


Book you need to read:

Rob Green: The Art of Seduction

It's a scary book. It's a true historical account and psychological analysis of the greatest lovers in history and their victims.

[Blarg]

The idea of guys thinking they're charming and have a chance, and at the same time being drunk...I think you can see where I tend to doubt their opinions of their chances. Being drunk and having either good judgment or an accurate idea of your sex appeal go together like oil and water. Absolutely regardless of whether you like or respect the parties in question. Not that I think most guys are all that honest in the first place. And it's certainly a point at which it's more than fair to call someone's judgment into question.

But most of all, it was just kidding around.

Besides, none of this has to do with anything like a "bro's before ho's" philosophy.

As to this part:

[ QUOTE ]
To this day I wonder if I was too selective. I was attracted to them, but knew it wouldn't turn into a serious relationship (at least for me). Not an easy situation to say the least.

How is that for discipline? I go to sleep at night knowing my penis didn't screw up a wonderful friendship or scar the mind of an innocent woman, but I also realized that I screwed up the chance to have some incredible sex with a woman I don't talk to anymore anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

...I wish I couldn't identify with it, but I can.

I've pushed aside more than I should have, and would do lots of things differently if I could do them again.

I've also barely avoided some incredibly serious mistakes that many of my friends and just casual acquaintances have not. My take on sexual temptation is it's hard for a guy not to succumb to, not easy, and it's pretty common not to be able to do it. It gets a lot easier if she's not all that sure she wants you or has to be convinced, but if a woman in possession of her faculties and looking good gets a certain look in her eyes that lets you know exactly what ground you're standing on, and you think she's desirable, it takes more willpower than a lot of guys have to say no. All those guys who get married or have babies young, or wind up screwing someone they know they shouldn't, and all the guys you know did the wrong thing in your own life, testify to that.

[Blarg]

I also recommend, Nice Guys Don't Get Laid. Hilarious, and there's actually way too much truth in it for the comfort of any reasonably decent person.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
And it's certainly a point at which it's more than fair to call someone's judgment into question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but the guy in my Sexual Darwinism thread gets hit on so much I have to tell him when some women are hitting on him. When I told him the purse girl in this thread:

Linky (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=exchange&Number=2173570&Fo rum=All_Forums&Words=purse&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&M ain=2173570&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=7066&da terange=1&newerval=1&newertype=w&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post2173570)

was hitting on him, he didn't believe me at first. That's why he decided to have fun with it. Turns out he didn't sleep with her. After I left someone stopped him when he was really drunk, and horny because he made already made out with two women that night in front of me, sat him down and told him the purse girl was ugly and he had beer goggles on. I would of shagged the crap out that girl and he turned her down because of someone elses word. DRUNK OF HIS ASS!!! So I think my claims are accurate enough.

As usual, you had valid points on all accounts.

I like you Blarg.

Where are you from?

And how did you learn so much about people?

*please excuse the grammar, time is precious

[Blarg]

Well, thanks very much for the kind word, definitely. I kid around sometimes, but my intentions are good even when I'm clumsy.

I grew up in Guam and Hawaii, and now I live in California.

I think I know a good deal of whatever it is I've learned in life from growing up in a foster family with lots of kids. I've been the oldest kid, the youngest, and one of the ones in the middle. I had adopted brothers and an adopted sister, step brothers, half brothers, and lots of kids were in and out of our house. Some stayed only for days, and some stayed for years. They were all different races, and my family is every color under the sun. Many of the kids were screwed up, being the victims of sex crimes, brutality, and simple neglect from their parents. They had extremely hard lives at an incredibly early age. I think I learned more about kids and what people can and will do to each other, even inside their own families, as a teenager than anyone should have to learn in several lifetimes, and in a face to face fashion on a daily basis. A lot of screwed up kids spent a lot of late night hours crying in my arms. I think I grew up way too fast in some ways, but it made me a much better person than I could have otherwise expect to have been.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

...I wish I couldn't identify with it, but I can.

I've pushed aside more than I should have, and would do lots of things differently if I could do them again.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm busy tonight so I can't reply much more, but I need to have an conversation with you. I've messed up in the past by turning down too many.... /images/graemlins/mad.gif I am currently in a situation where my lazy friends little sister, who is uber hot, is blatently coming on to me. This girl is smoking hot, magazine quality, and squeezes her boobs around me and all that jaz. She is very forward. Her mom wants me to marry her and loves me to death. Her brother (my friend) wants us to date, but only if we are are going to be serious. The problem is, I don't know if I could seriously date this girl. The way she is comming on to me is more of the way a stripper comes on to someone. It seems very obvious that she has a lot of experience. But this girl is studying to be a nurse so she is reliable. Right now I give her a 1% chance of it turning serious and 99% chance of it turning into a shagfest. Basically, my knee high friend and her/his mom, wouldn't be happy about what they've pictured as the perfect setup for years.

[Hoopster81]

[ QUOTE ]
I know if I wanted to get back with an ex that I had just broken up with, and I found out she started messing around with some other guy within days of us breaking up, I would be pissed as hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

And here in lies the difference between men and women.

[Blarg]

Everyone has a different sort of way of communicating intimacy and where they feel boundaries should be. It can be tricky if you read another person completely through your own perspective without knowing them too well, because what their behavior means to them can be different from what it means to you. And we all tend to think our way of understanding things and what people do and intend is the natural way and one that makes perfect sense. But another person is always another language to learn, and sometimes someone's phrases clang and grate on the ear even if they're in perfect sympathy with us. I wouldn't know either way since I'm not one of the people involved, but to be kind and fair, and give both of you the best chance at whatever happiness is possible between you, you have to be very careful you really understand her on her own terms and not just in yours. It's possible that you may be making judgments that are just a little off, maybe a little premature. You may have to learn her language a little better before you take any judgments of her too far. PM me if you want to.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
However, even with my lack of "game" I have still managed to turn down with more women then I've slept with.

[/ QUOTE ]

so ur a hotass pimp. congrats.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

so ur a hotass pimp. congrats.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, far from it. Many of my friends are, but I'm more of a prude when it comes to women. It is only on very rare occasion can I have sex with someone I'm not in love with. And unfortunitally I was born with an ultraspecific love map. It's very hard for me to find someone I'm attracted to. It really is a curse. The limited experience causes me to make stupod mistakes when I actually do like someone. My numbers (for intercourse) are low.

[ QUOTE ]
If there is anyone of my friends that has charm problems it is me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this sentence (which was right before the sentence you quoted) and several others in this thread, would of made that crystal clear.

Feeling testy???