Should I be walking back to Houston?

[dfscott]

I feel like I got myself in a pickle on this one. Is the stop-and-go a mistake? I know it was too small -- would it have been better at 200? Much more than that, and I would've had to push, which I wasn't prepared to do.

Finally, am I wrong to expect my K to be good here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1550)
BB (t760)
UTG (t715)
Hero (t775)
UTG+2 (t825)
MP1 (t845)
MP2 (t710)
MP3 (t860)
CO (t770)
Button (t190)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t95</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t160</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls t65.

Flop: (t365) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, MP1 calls t150.

Turn: (t665) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t465 (All-in)</font>, MP1 calls t465.

[Unarmed]

Why on earth did you bet the flop?

[Scuba Chuck]

I don't think a continuation bet (if that what you're attempting) will work once you just call preflop.

In retrospect, I'd bet less preflop, and check the flop. As it is, I think villain has AA or KK here.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a continuation bet (if that what you're attempting) will work once you just call preflop.

In retrospect, I'd bet less preflop, and check the flop. As it is, I think villain has AA or KK here.

[/ QUOTE ]

youd really raise to less than 3bb? i hope to god you're not quibbling over the 5 extra chips he tagged on there.

as for me, i'd probably play preflop the same (though the number 95 is not one i would choose for a raise just cuz it's not aesthetic or something), but have to agree that betting that flop is pretty poor. he's the aggressor, and you have ace high. he also sent you a big "i have a big hand" signal, which unless i had good reason not to, i'd be respecting usually. people don't even usually make this raise with anything as small as AK. so yeah, i'd checkfold this flop.

citanul

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a continuation bet (if that what you're attempting) will work once you just call preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it was a continuation bet. I see people calling big pre-flop raises early with all kinds of crap in the 22s (i.e., KJ, QJ, etc.), so I thought I might be able to run him off. His call indicated that I wasn't going to be able to and I put him on a pair as well.

[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect, I'd bet less preflop, and check the flop. As it is, I think villain has AA or KK here.

[/ QUOTE ]

How would you play this pre-flop?

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a continuation bet (if that what you're attempting) will work once you just call preflop.

In retrospect, I'd bet less preflop, and check the flop. As it is, I think villain has AA or KK here.

[/ QUOTE ]

youd really raise to less than 3bb? i hope to god you're not quibbling over the 5 extra chips he tagged on there.

as for me, i'd probably play preflop the same (though the number 95 is not one i would choose for a raise just cuz it's not aesthetic or something), but have to agree that betting that flop is pretty poor. he's the aggressor, and you have ace high. he also sent you a big "i have a big hand" signal, which unless i had good reason not to, i'd be respecting usually. people don't even usually make this raise with anything as small as AK. so yeah, i'd checkfold this flop.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate that stupid slider -- I should just type my bets. I couldn't get it right and with the other 3 tables beeping at me, I just stuck with 95.

Let's say you do get confused and bet the flop. Do you think villain has AA or KK here enough times that I shouldn't expect my K on the turn to be good?

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a continuation bet (if that what you're attempting) will work once you just call preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it was a continuation bet. I see people calling big pre-flop raises early with all kinds of crap in the 22s (i.e., KJ, QJ, etc.), so I thought I might be able to run him off. His call indicated that I wasn't going to be able to and I put him on a pair as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed that people do call with crap preflop; however, he reraised preflop, which is why a check on the flop is usually the right thing to do unless you have a good read that suggests otherwise.

[syphlix]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it was a continuation bet. I see people calling big pre-flop raises early with all kinds of crap in the 22s (i.e., KJ, QJ, etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

but he wasn't calling you?... he was raising...

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect, I'd bet less preflop, and check the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you thinking it's level 1? FWIW, my standard pfr in level 2 is at least 100.

Assuming we have no read, or our read says villian isn't retarded, I would just call the preflop raise and check/fold the flop. I put his range of hands somewhere around QQ-AA and AK. The flop didn't help, we have no spades, I'm ready to move onto the next hand.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it was a continuation bet. I see people calling big pre-flop raises early with all kinds of crap in the 22s (i.e., KJ, QJ, etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

but he wasn't calling you?... he was raising...

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! Good point.

I have a bad habit of getting into these testosterone battles early. Although this one worked out (he had the only reasonable hand he could've played this way that I could beat), I'm laying this down next time. I had a feeling that despite the results, I didn't play it correctly and it looks like everyone is confirming that.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think a continuation bet (if that what you're attempting) will work once you just call preflop.

In retrospect, I'd bet less preflop, and check the flop. As it is, I think villain has AA or KK here.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



youd really raise to less than 3bb? i hope to god you're not quibbling over the 5 extra chips he tagged on there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn it. Citanul, you're right. Thanks for the catch. Thought it was level 1. (wake up Scuba!)

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate that stupid slider -- I should just type my bets. I couldn't get it right and with the other 3 tables beeping at me, I just stuck with 95.

Let's say you do get confused and bet the flop. Do you think villain has AA or KK here enough times that I shouldn't expect my K on the turn to be good?

[/ QUOTE ]

eh, the bet size thing happens to everyone. take heart, MLG just misTYPED a bet, with an extra 0, costing him $13k. so there's always that to aspire to /images/graemlins/smile.gif

of all the times i've seen the very small reraise preflop, i've seen hands i can beat in this spot with AK too few i think to think you have the odds. i've seen i think once each 99 and KJ, though it might be common at the 800 chip games, i don't know. i'm sure you have a pretty good sampling of seeing this play from opponents as well, so you can probably shed some light on this one for us too.

sadly, we're all also guilty from time to time of "knowing" we're beat and "knowing" we don't have the odds, but hitting just enough of a hand to change our minds. also, at some point, your stack gets short enough you should gamble to pick it back up or bust. i'm not sure this is one of these points, since you do have enough chips to play poker with if you just get out post turn.

take all my words with a grain of salt for now, since i'm sleepy.

citanul

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
of all the times i've seen the very small reraise preflop, i've seen hands i can beat in this spot with AK too few i think to think you have the odds. i've seen i think once each 99 and KJ, though it might be common at the 800 chip games, i don't know. i'm sure you have a pretty good sampling of seeing this play from opponents as well, so you can probably shed some light on this one for us too.

sadly, we're all also guilty from time to time of "knowing" we're beat and "knowing" we don't have the odds, but hitting just enough of a hand to change our minds. also, at some point, your stack gets short enough you should gamble to pick it back up or bust. i'm not sure this is one of these points, since you do have enough chips to play poker with if you just get out post turn.

take all my words with a grain of salt for now, since i'm sleepy.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right. The fact that my K was a /images/graemlins/spade.gif is even worse, since most of the hands I can beat are fish on a flush draw.

I'll just write this one off as a lesson I got paid to learn.

[citanul]

yah, if you had had the As, i don't think i could have resisted pushing for a second, but alas. thankfully when you lose here you can write it off as an education related expense.

glad to hear it worked out though.

citanul

[hummusx]

I had two quick thoughts on this:

1) At the 22s, I've seen this kind of play preflop with A9s, 99, KJ. This might be completely wrong, but I'm just as likely to come over his head pf as call.

2) If you're going to bet, and there's a flush draw out, why bet the amount you did? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't have bet, but you're offering him almost 3.5:1 to call.

[Jason Strasser]

I don't understand your line. Why stop and go?

[curtains]

I like the slider, it makes me unpredictable. It helps to randomize my raise amounts, I basically just move it to what I plan to raise and if it falls on that number, okay thats what I raise...but sometimes itll be a bit higher or lower and then I will stick with it.

Note that if there is some pressing strategic reason why I want to raise a certain amount I will of course make sure to do that. However a lot of the time it doesn't matter that much whether you raise to 2.5-3.5 the BB anyway.