22/33 players

[hummusx]

There was a pretty extensive discussion a while back about the 33s as a potential stopping point for a lot of decent players. I'm just wondering if there's anyone that has recently made the move from 22 to 33 and what your take on the difference in play is. My bankroll is starting to get to the point that I'm contemplating a move.

[ripped]

Man I swear I was thinking this question not 20 minutes ago.

My bankroll is plenty (I could move to the 50's and 100's if needed be) But I am pretty comfortable crushing the 20's and making good money per night. Now I know that it may not seem like much to you guys but I am still working on my game trying to plug up some holes. My friend who is also playing the 20's and says he is ready to move up thinks I'm ready also but I am not sure I want to move. When do you know for sure that you can move? And how different are the games as the first poster asked from the 20's to the 30's?

[Nicok7]

From what I have seen the difference isn't huge, there is less complete maniacs andthe game seems to have more player left at level 4/5 (usually around 6 I would say). If you crush the 20s then you'll just have to adjust and not push as often since there is more player left, and you'll be fine.

[jah0550]

I play the 50s pretty regularly and due to some bad beats/bad play, I lost a huge chunk of my bankroll. I had to drop to the 20s. I used to play the 30s before moving to the 50s. The 30s are much tougher than the 50s or the 20s. Now that I am back in the 20s, it still amazes me how willing people are to hand their chips to you. I don't think that I'll ever move up again. Why move up if you are killing the 20s?

[kevstreet]

It's the right time when you don't have to ask whether or not you should move up. Do you see why? (I always wanted to ask that.) Seriously, I do think there is some merit to it. When you're confident enough in your play and bankroll, you won't need to ask.

[Madd]

Take an average 20$-sitngo, replace one bad player by a decent player and you have an average 30$-sitngo.

[Nottom]

I've been playing the 20s and 30s for the past few days and have noticed very little difference.

[J-Lo]

Well when i tried to move up, i dropped 30 buyins (1k) in 3 days. So, i moved back to the 20's, gona see what happens.

[ripped]

Thx for the feedback. I think I will continue to crush the 20's for another month or so. Move to the 30's in mid May.

[R_Brite_TDX]

I don't see why this is such a huge question on the forums lately. No one on here can accurately tell you if you are ready to move up because they simply have not seen you play at all or very little. I think the best way to gauge "if your ready" is to try it. The way I did it was to mix in a 22 into my 11's when I was quad tabling. I would do this until I was consistently winning at the 22s or I felt that I was ready to take the full plunge. Anyway, thats my suggestion and I am surprised no one really talks about easing into it like that.

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see why this is such a huge question on the forums lately. No one on here can accurately tell you if you are ready to move up because they simply have not seen you play at all or very little. I think the best way to gauge "if your ready" is to try it. The way I did it was to mix in a 22 into my 11's when I was quad tabling. I would do this until I was consistently winning at the 22s or I felt that I was ready to take the full plunge. Anyway, thats my suggestion and I am surprised no one really talks about easing into it like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

See that's interesting, because I really do NOT like doing it this way. I had a lot of trouble trying to ease my way into the 20's from the 10's. I was back to just the 10s and decided one day I was going to move. So I went from 1/2 tabling the 10s to 4-tabling the 20s and never looked back. It was rough for just a little while, then things smoothed out. I'd probably plan to do the same with the 30s.

Of course, my original question wasn't about whether I was 'ready'. I was just asking what people who were recently playing both noticed. There's been a couple pretty decent answers.

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
I play the 50s pretty regularly and due to some bad beats/bad play, I lost a huge chunk of my bankroll. I had to drop to the 20s. I used to play the 30s before moving to the 50s. The 30s are much tougher than the 50s or the 20s. Now that I am back in the 20s, it still amazes me how willing people are to hand their chips to you. I don't think that I'll ever move up again. Why move up if you are killing the 20s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, would you rather make 20% at the 20s or 10% at the 50s? I'd rather the latter, do you see why? Seriously though, you'd be making more money at the table plus 150% more in rakeback.

[ripped]

he was actually replying to me. I was asking about being ready.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see why this is such a huge question on the forums lately. No one on here can accurately tell you if you are ready to move up because they simply have not seen you play at all or very little. I think the best way to gauge "if your ready" is to try it. The way I did it was to mix in a 22 into my 11's when I was quad tabling. I would do this until I was consistently winning at the 22s or I felt that I was ready to take the full plunge. Anyway, thats my suggestion and I am surprised no one really talks about easing into it like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

See that's interesting, because I really do NOT like doing it this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you there. I never liked doing this at the limit games, and although the different in limit games is apparently more striking than difference in SnGs, I've noticed enough difference between the 11s and the 22s that I wouldn't want to mix them (I have a hard enough time keeping track of what level I'm on).

[ripped]

yeah but when you hit a cold streak it would get mighty cold in the 50's but it would be pretty nice when you are on a hoty streak. Variance would be a bitch if you are a regulat 20's player. I eventually will be 8-12 tabling the 50's but right now am happy with the low variance of the 20's.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
But I am pretty comfortable crushing the 20's and making good money per night.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you consider "crushing," if you don't mind sharing? And over how many games? I'm just trying to get a feel for where I should/need to be.

(Yes, this is a sneaky way to ask "what's a good ROI for the 22s" without getting grief for starting a new thread.)

[ripped]

Well it's not a very big sample size like most have here but it's enough for me to judge that I can beat these games pretty easy.. I have only about 500 games in (that I have tracked) and my ROI is around 24%. I am not sure if this is really "crushing" the games but I feel like I am and I still feel I have a few holes to plug yet.

[Voltron87]

web page (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2152910&page=1&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
web page (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2152910&page=1&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, thanks Voltron but I think you look at MY post, I wasn't asking 'can I beat it', 'how hard is it', 'am I ready for it', blah blah blah. I asked:

[ QUOTE ]

I'm just wondering if there's anyone that has recently made the move from 22 to 33 and what your take on the difference in play is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a fair enough request. When I've logged enough 22s to feel confident that the numbers aren't a complete fluke and I'm comfortable in my bankroll, I'll move. I don't think that the subject of differences between SNG levels should be completely off limits just because some people constantly ask if they are ready to move.

[Voltron87]

The point is the only way to find out the differences is to play some.

[tech]

[ QUOTE ]
The point is the only way to find out the differences is to play some.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or perhaps to search for and read the other hundreds of posts on this topic.

[Voltron87]

My other point is those posts can't even help you that much.

[tech]

Agreed.

[Mr_J]

I have 500 $33s logged and 400 $22s. I started at the $33s, and the first 250 or so were during the 'tough' hours. I had a couple of ugly drops and tried the $22s. Nearly all the $22s were during peak hours.

My ROI at the $33s is nearly 0. My ROI at the $22s is 35%. Obviously I'm running cold in the former and hot in the latter. I haven't played the $33s for a bit, but I felt that during peak hours, $33s were worth the move up not a 'must'. During slow hours I felt that the $22s were at least nearly as profitable as the $33s.

[Newt_Buggs]

If I had typed up Mr_j's post word for word it would almost perfectly describe my experience at the 20s/30s.

After moving up to the 30s then getting on a really bad run my ROI dropped to 0%. Now I'm back at the 20's mainly to rebuild my confidence more than anything else.

[hummusx]

You're the 3rd person in this thread that's said they were beating the 22s pretty solidly, then got beat pretty badly at the 33s and ended up dropping back down to the 22s.

[Mr_J]

If you are including me, I started at the $33s and only dropped down to the $22s after an ugly run. In theory I'd earn a bit more at the $33s, but I'm not losing any sleep over it, mainly because I'm moving to the $55s for good soon (after I get comfy 8+ tabling, get my NL HU going and O8 on track. Found occasionally playing stuff apart from sngs keeps sngs fresh and grindable).

[Newt_Buggs]

I have a small sample size though at the 30s and was getting much, much better cards on the 20s. I plan on returning to the 30s shortly (hopefully within a week I'll feel ready mentally).

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Take an average 20$-sitngo, replace one bad player by a decent player and you have an average 30$-sitngo.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
Found occasionally playing stuff apart from sngs keeps sngs fresh and grindable)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bit of a derail, but I couldn't agree more.

[stupidsucker]

There is a much larger difference in the 20s and 30s then some people are willing to admit or just understand. I reserve the right to be completely wrong, but Ill go down with a fight.

The 30s are tough. Is every game tough? hell no, but you have a much larger chance to be 7 handed at level 5 and 6 at the 30s then the 20s. People dont play as many small pairs too far, people dont play as any dominated aces. People are much more aggressive on the bubble.

I am personaly logging all of my stats for the 20s now after stepping down from the 30s. So far its fairly clear that my $/tourny are higher at the 20s then at the 30s. Unfortunatly the more I/we talk about this the more the factor can change. 2+2 posters make a bigger difference at Sngs then you might think. There are a ton of lurkers.(yeah I see you)

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a much larger difference in the 20s and 30s then some people are willing to admit or just understand. I reserve the right to be completely wrong, but Ill go down with a fight.

The 30s are tough. Is every game tough? hell no, but you have a much larger chance to be 7 handed at level 5 and 6 at the 30s then the 20s. People dont play as many small pairs too far, people dont play as any dominated aces. People are much more aggressive on the bubble.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yugoslav

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a much larger difference in the 20s and 30s then some people are willing to admit or just understand. I reserve the right to be completely wrong, but Ill go down with a fight.

The 30s are tough. Is every game tough? hell no, but you have a much larger chance to be 7 handed at level 5 and 6 at the 30s then the 20s. People dont play as many small pairs too far, people dont play as any dominated aces. People are much more aggressive on the bubble.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Yugo, you're a Pooh-Bah now... you can stop doing this, no?

Irieguy
Who was hoping that Pooh-Bah Yugo would at least add a contemplative post-script after his signature while post-whoring.

[david050173]

On these move up posts, the big question should always be why are you playing poker right now? Is it to make money now or become a better poker player?

If it is just to make money it is ok to keep grinding out at the same level. You should be able to get up to something like 25-30% ROI in the 20s and if you start 8-12 tabling them you will make pretty decent money.

If you want to become a better player, you will be better off taking shots at bigger games. Even if you are a 0% ROI player short term, playing against better players will make you better.

Personally I would recommend take a limited number of buyins (10-15) and play at the higher level until a) your broke and go back to grinding out the 22s or b) you feel confidant that you are winning 33 player. Note if you go broke you might just be an unlucky player. Taking a break at the lower levels is probably a good idea so you don't get too frustrated.