Little AK hand

[ArturiusX]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero ???



Walk it with me people. New table, no reads.

[toss]

I'd bet out.

[Firefly]

Checks. We can't blow out BB if he has anything decent, with a bet here. I want to see another card, so i'll c/c the flop. You could also c/r the flop to try to get rid of BB, but your drawing at this point and you want him to sweeten the pot

[ArturiusX]

Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ...

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Calls, trying to pick up at least a better draw on the turn

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]

why

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]


why

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you visiting here because entity's on vacation or something? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ArturiusX]

Come on people, lets see those grunchers! Why do I check here, and what do I do next? This is a very common happening, one which could be a leak.

[hicherbie]

id fold. you are behind everything that people could be betting and reraising with on that flop.

edit: if it were checked to me id bet out though.

[toss]

We have two overcards and a BD flush draw. I want to bet out and see what kind of reaction I'm getting UTG. If he raises I'm calling and taking a peek at the turn.

[popeye18]

Hero folds

[ajm36]

Now, I am a junior member of the power ranger team, but I bet this. Your overcards may be shot, but you don't know. At this point, I would play as if they were good, plus you have the backdoor flush draw and a double gutshot straight draw (can't be worth many outs-probably 1, but is worth something). I bet out and see what the action is like, I probably call a raise and see the turn.

[Firefly]

I agree that we absolutely want to see the turn, but shouldn't we try to do it as cheaply as possible? Plus it puts you in a uncomforatable spot if they both call your bet and a blank falls on the turn.

[deepsquat]

edit- thought that was the turn play. I fold when 2 back to me.

K or A may not be good

[Firefly]

Kicks his cat and calls.

[ArturiusX]

No ones spoken about which I think is the biggest factor in this hand; the BB has bet into a preflop capper.

Does this change people's views as to calling? If we call, what do we do if its capped behind us?

[aK13]

I'd like a check/call here, as betting will almost certainly result in a raise, when we want to see the turn card for cheap. I fold the turn UI.

EDIT: Now I've read part 2 -- Things are looking grim. I think we're still drawing live, and I'd probably call, but hope that it's not capped.

[hicherbie]

you are behind to almost every concievable hand they would play like this with.

why chase when there is still the chance of having to call more bets before seeing the turn?

[Fredrik]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Here the choice is either to pay 4 SB or fold, as BB will surely 3-bet or cap if you raise it. UTG loves his AA/KK, so he will cap if BB 3-bets.

I think your only chance here is the backdoor draws. As I don't think A or K will help you, as it will give UTG a set 50% of the time and you will still be behind whatever set BB picked up (Js probably).

Or am I seeing monsters under the bed where there are none? Could BB be on a flushdraw?

[jaxUp]

Cool, a play-along. Preflop: go at it hardcore

on the flop: I like the check. We know he's going to raise us anyways, even with whiffed OCs, so I'd kinda like to see the turn for cheap. Also, A's and K's are tainted.

When BB bets, and PFRer raises, I think I drop it (like it's hot??). we are now more likely to be reverse-dominated with heavily tainted outs. Our only hope (pretty much) is the BDFD, and it just ain't worth it.

[xenthebrain]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ...

[/ QUOTE ]

folds, you have like 4 outs here (A and K of clubs aren't good here, half a out for each of the other 4 aces and kings and 1.5 outs for your backdoor flush and maybe 0.5 for your backdoor straight.

You get 1-to-7.5 on this call (with the risk of reraised or capped behind you) you need 1-to-10.7
You only have great implied odds if you make your flush or straight, with TP you won't get paid of big, so I says fold the flop

[string4]

*blind response, critique welcome*

checks to set up C/R...or to 3-bet raised pot

[Rev. Good Will]

Grunching

C/r to knock out BB if UTG raises, but if it gets checked through, I won't lose sleep over it. I guess its like 7 or 8 outs with the your 6 A/K outs, the backdoor flush, and I don't know if its worht counting the backdoor gutshot, so bottom line is that it's worth a call if BB is betting.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ...

[/ QUOTE ]

i fold because i have no reads.
the 7.5:1 i'm getting to call 2 on the flop is poor, given that there is no gaurantee that my A or K outs are good. and it is possible that BB will 3-bet behind me.

[Rev. Good Will]

grunching

hero starts to cry until the next hand starts while clicking "fold".

UTG, even though we have no reads, how stupid/chip spewing can he be? I am afraid of having AA/KK, which takes away some of your outs/has you beat, QQ/TT, which you can compete against, JJ which has you dominated, or maybe has AK clubs, which takes away your draws and has you possibly drawing dead to a flush.

On top of that, BB woke up, which can't be good, showing NO aggression PF, and suddenly betting here is bad news.

[PokerProdigy]

I think a bet in this spot will probably get raised, and a check-raise might get re-raised. Therefore, this looks like a good time to check and call to see a cheap turn, and then you'll have a better idea of how to play your hand.

[SlantNGo]

Check/call the flop... any read on UTG's capping standards?

When it's 2 back to you, and especially with the possibility that it will be 3-bet behind you, I'll drop out without hesitating.

[wyoak]

Check with the intention of calling the flop. Maybe go for a checkraise if you think it'll get you heads up or buy you a free turn (unlikely out of position I know).

Once it comes back raised to you I'd fold. BB waking up here looks like a set to me. There's no guarantee he's not 3betting and it might come back to you capped, which would suck alot.

[MechanoMan]

&lt;GRUNCHING&gt;
I check this flop. I can't decide if this is weak, though.
I fold when it's two back to me. BB waking up is scary, and having the flop capped would suck.
&lt;/GRUNCHING&gt;

[Isura]

Betting this flop is pure chip spewing. You have to treat this as a hand with less than 4 outs considering the preflop action. You can't get a free turn card, you rarely have the best hand, no one is folding A8,A6,KJ etc, so betting doesn't improve your chances of winning the hand. Call and see the turn. I don't think the decision is close.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ...

[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking check/call on the flop, but I don't think we should call here. Even though the current odds are 7.5:1 (15:2), it could easily become 5:1. (20:4 after a 3-bet and cap) I really only like the back-door draws, so I think we only have 3 outs. Not nearly enough to call.

I don't think BB betting means a set, though, as others have mentioned. So many players assume a pre-flop cap is AK, so a bet here could be AJ or even a FD or OESD.

[iluzion]

id check/call one bet, but folding for the way the flopped worked out here.

[MechanoMan]

You're not worried about it coming back capped? Or is that an easy call as well?