my 5/10 6max starting hand chart: is this very very wrong?

[TStoneMBD]

the chart on the right came from this thread by mebenhoe:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1256134&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&vc=1

i took his chart and made many changes to it. this is how i play. because there are so many differences, do i have alot of leaks to plug? please point them out.

the chart on the left is mine.
the chart on the right is mebenhoe.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/tstonembd/startinghandchart.jpg

[helpmeout]

Starting hand charts are only useful as a guide as each game has different situations.

Open limping with trashy PPs and AXs UTG is a good way to lose money.

[aslowjoe]

Re raising on the button, with PP 4,5,6's is not something I usually do. Anybody else?

[TStoneMBD]

sorry i messed up the chart. i fold 44 to a raise, but reraise with 55 and 66 if the guy came in from the CO or if hes 10%PFR+ and came in from the hijack.

[balkii]

IMO preflop play in short games is a LOT easier without looking at that chart. i think i'm having a seizure

[balkii]

arent you winning like 3+/100 8-tabing 3/6? i cant imagine you would need a preflop chart when starting SHed, you clearly know how to play.

[TStoneMBD]

that doesnt mean i dont have serious preflop leaks. i definitely do.

[mantasm]

What does your vpip/pfr end up being with this? I found it interesting that you'll limp behind a limper with 66-44 but reraise a raiser. Is this because you're more likely to knock out the blinds?

[TStoneMBD]

i cant coldcall with a small pp heads up, thats why...


i have no idea what my stats are going to be for 6max. i just started playing today and only have 6.5k hands.

[imitation]

Hey I think your leak is that you want a starting hand chart..

[Sporky]

to me, a lot of the stuff you changed seems very borderline depending on the texture of the table. what worked/works best for me was starting with a smaller set of hands in each position. i like to continually add hands as my feel gets better rather than have to take away to plug leaks. i guess i might not win optimally for a while, but that's just what works for me. everyone is different.

i truly don't know how profitable things like raising A8o after 2 limpers and re-raising 44 and 55 from the button is though. i think a lot of your changes can and do apply in certain situations, but can be costly as a general rule.

just my .02 good luck.

[MAxx]

scanning your chart vs M's,

IMO there are fairly similiar. I think a starting hand chart would be good for someone new to 6-max or maybe as an occasional reference when you forget what is standard.

Otherwise the gray plays such as 3betting pocket 66's probably don't need to be on a newbie's chart as those plays are situationally and read dependant.

[TStoneMBD]

sorry, i dont raise 2 limpers with hands like A8/A7o. only if there is 1 limper and he has a high vpip.

[mantasm]

Another question, why do you raise a limper with T9s but not JTs?

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
i just started playing today and only have 6.5k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Michael Davis]

Uhoh, threebetting with 66 is SOP for me if there are no callers in between...

-Michael

[TStoneMBD]

err yah, didnt see that. i mean, you guys are right, starting hand charts are not good if you follow these guidelines every time. theyre good just for the sake of making sure that im not doing something fishy. i dont raise a limper with 9Ts every time, nor do i with JTs, only sometimes when i feel its appropriate. if i have no chance of folding the blinds then it may not be +ev to make this play, even though hands like 9Ts and JTs play much better with momentum.

the other times i limp.

[Girchuck]

Can't you fold with small pp on the button at least against tighter players?

A vast majority of the time, reraising with 55 is no better than a coinflip.

[Perseus]

[ QUOTE ]
i just started playing today and only have 6.5k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you had a very busy day

[Nicmavsfan28]

Even against AKs a pocket pair is favored barely as you well know, but in no limit hold 'em your odds are rarely a great deal stronger, and often weaker when you get correct pot odds, i realize you are betting on the set which is roughly 22:1 against, but you dont have to improve unless they pair up. Conversely i think reading a larger pair may make your point valid. But i must say a race with the edge is still getting your money into the pot with the best hand. What do you think? Am I wrong? /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[TStoneMBD]

yes. you are very, very wrong. /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Girchuck]

There is an interesting way to analyse this chart.
Ask yourself this: Can I beat myself?
That is, if someone playing your chart limps or raises, is it profitable for you to raise or re-raise him while also playing your chart?
If it is profitable, then you will probably do alright against looser players, and will have to make adjustments against tighter players.

[TStoneMBD]

of course my chart is exploitable. i would certainly adjust my play if this were 100/200 6max. thats a silly way to look at it though imo, because the players at 5/10 are nowhere near equipped to exploit someones starting hand chart.

they cannot exploit me, i am merely maximizes ev.

if im at a table with players who have the capability of exploiting me, i change tables.

[TomBrooks]

I would be much more comfortable evaluating this chart on paper. Could you provide a download link for it?

[TStoneMBD]

sorry, i didnt make this in excel. i took mebenhoe's starting hand chart and pasted it into paint. i covered over his actions with my own actions by copy/paste.

if you want the actual excel file then mebenhoe might still have it.

[Lost Wages]

On the button after 2 limpers I would play K8s/KTo/Q8s/QJo.

Lost Wages