JTs this time

[MoreWineII]

UB 5/10 6-handed.

Folded to me, I open-raise J /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif in the CO, button folds, SB 3-bets, BB caps, I call...

Good or bad? SB is fishy and BB seems decent, but he's getting a really shitty run of cards. I sense desperation.

Flop is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif SB checks, BB bets, I raise...

Standard, both players call.

Turn: 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif Checked through.

Standard, I think.

River: K /images/graemlins/club.gif SB bets, BB calls, I raise...

[bblock99]

I like it, probably how I would play it.

[sy_or_bust]

Good.

[Ass Master]

Even assuming a pretty premium range of hands for SB and BB, you have to call getting 5:1 with JTs in position.

The turn is pretty standard - your raise on the flop was partly for value and partly to get you a free card on the turn. Since the turn card wasn't what you wanted, check it thru.

The river raise is clear. I wouldn't have much fear of a bigger flush or FH because I don't think the prior streets would've played out the way they did in either of those two instances.

[MAxx]

looks good to me.

what do you think of UB 6-Max? I have been playing there a little this week. Probably only a thousand hands. I was thinking the game was pretty soft there, but I was running extraodinarily hot so I dont know.

How do you think UB compares to Party 5/10 6M?

[DrGutshot]

if you think SB is capable of folding at all, that turn was a good card for you. bet it.

-DrG

[Jeffage]

I think I like betting the turn. You're getting 9-1 odds on your semi-bluff and I think there is some chance of taking it down (or getting something like KQ, AJ, etc out...which would be good). Also, if you are called or raised...you have like 18 outs potentially. I would not check this.

Jeff

[rory]

Switching to an alternate universe where he bets the turn, gets called in one or two places and the river blanks.. hero bets again, right? How about if just the BB calls?

[Jeffage]

Getting 11-1 on the bluff (or 12-1 if he gets two callers), yes he would have to bet the river in the hopes that a dry ace would fold.

Jeff

[MoreWineII]

[ QUOTE ]
looks good to me.

what do you think of UB 6-Max? I have been playing there a little this week. Probably only a thousand hands. I was thinking the game was pretty soft there, but I was running extraodinarily hot so I dont know.

How do you think UB compares to Party 5/10 6M?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played on Party in forever, but I'm enjoying the 5/10 6M at UB. It's helping me think about a lot of little decisions that you sometimes ignore in a full ring game. Anyway, if I had to guess, I'd say it's softer than the Party game. I'm finding some really good tables here and there.

[MAxx]

I agree that sometimes a turn bet is good when pushing a flush draw b/c of fold equity.

Here, on average, based on PF action I don't think you have enough fold equity. You have setup a free turn card beautifully, and I think you should strongly consider taking it.

Note: A turn lead is far from horrible. Your Pot Equity is pretty close to justify it.

I just think that your fold equity is not great here, and you are usually going to have to improve to win (based primarily on PF/Flop action).

[Jeffage]

All that happened on the flop is there was a bet, call and a raise w/ both players calling. A big pair would likely play it fast on the flop (pocket 10's and higher); someone who flopped a set of 9's or something may play it fast too (or checkraise the turn). The 4 bets pre can mean anything (AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, suited or unsuited or just bluster). I don't think anything has happened yet to indicate your necessarily against an overpair (though it's possible). I think with your huge draw and the pot size, a bet on the turn is definitely warranted and can set up a continued bluff on the end. If you check the turn, you MUST hit your hand to win....if you bet it, maybe not.

Jeff

[MAxx]

I hear what you are saying. What I am saying, is I basically believe in this particular scenario... the overwhelming majority of the time, your are going to have to hit something on this river whether you lead the turn or not.

If the parties demonstrated less interest, or it was headsups... I like a turn lead more than a turn check.

[SomethingClever]

Even if it's correct to fold preflop when it's two back to you here, I refuse to do it. I don't want the blinds to think I'm capable of folds like that.

Now, if I raise KJo UTG and it gets capped back to me, I might consider a fold... but this I call.

[MoreWineII]

Thanks for all the replies. Interesting turn discussion. Betting went through my mind, but it was one of those times where a check-raise would have made me vomit. After reading the responses though, I think you can at least make a convincing case for betting the turn.

Anyway, they both called and MWHG. BB said he had JJ and berated SB for betting the river. I chuckled.

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting went through my mind, but it was one of those times where a check-raise would have made me vomit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting checkraised here when you have tons of outs would make you vomit? I would feel fine about it. If you hit you will likely make at least two if not more large bets and you have tons of cards that will help you. If you're againt 4 or so opponents (even 3 maybe) I can see checking the turn. But I'm not looking to save bets on the turn in this spot.

Jeff

[MoreWineII]

I'm not a big fan of putting a bunch of big bets into the pot on the turn with a draw. With the board paired, suddenly my "outs" become less squeaky clean after being check-raised. I'm not discounting them, but still...

Had I been check-raised on the turn, I think it's safe to say that my jack and ten outs are no good. I'm basically down to crubs of non-seven and my gutshot outs.

Maybe vomit was too strong a response, but I'm definitely feeling a little less comfortable after being check-raised on the turn.