Josh Arieh Fold Preflop w/AK

[Chief911]

Taken from a Josh Ariah post in Daniel N's forum:

Thread (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/viewtopic.php?t=10215&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=30)

"6:28 - I had to fold AK preflop after raising a raiser to 19k when someone else moved all in. "

He probably had a stack of 150k at that point.

Discuss.

Nick

[mts]

thats all good but bringing a laptop to the table?? haha

[DireWolf]

heh, yeah thats funny.

[The Student]

i used to just think that he was an [censored], now i know that he's nutz too! is he that much of an action junkie that he has to play online while playing in one of the biggest tournies of the year?

ts-

[willie]

and not only a sit and go, a 5k sit and go...

gambool!

[SoBeDude]

What site has 5K SNGs?

[Mike Gallo]

discuss the thread or the fold?

I like the fold, the thread boggles my mind.


[ QUOTE ]
josharieh wrote:
josharieh wrote:
dEv~ wrote:
Josh are u under the table typing on a Laptop or something man?


They actually allow small laptops at the table now. They have WiFi hooked up in the tourney room for everyone to use. I am playing a 5k sit and go in between hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

[nolanfan34]

Considering that he doesn't give a read on either player, perhaps it's a situation where the guy who moved in was so tight that he could only have AA or KK there, who knows. He also doesn't mention stack sizes, if he had both players covered, someone had him covered, etc.

One thing that's strange from reading the blog today is it seems some biggish stacks are being eliminated with blinds of like 500-1000. Early on, Lee Watkinson got all in with a 50k stack, with 400-800 blinds, before the flop, and got CALLED by KJ?

[logogg]

Yes, a good fold.

More importantly, I never thought it would be possible for me to like Josh Arieh less than I already do. I stand corrected.

[Mike Gallo]

More importantly, I never thought it would be possible for me to like Josh Arieh less than I already do. I stand corrected.

Does his cockiness bother you or just the general rude demeanor he seems to portray at times?

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
Does his cockiness bother you or just the general rude demeanor he seems to portray at times?

[/ QUOTE ]
The general rude demeanor. I don't even know why I like people with manners more, but he rubs me the wrong way.

[Chaostracize]

Take into consideration also, that since Josh is doing something other than totally concentrating on the game at hand he's more apt to play tight.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Take into consideration also, that since Josh is doing something other than totally concentrating on the game at hand he's more apt to play tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even considering that at all. I think the laptop thing is a joke, maybe he is playing a SNG, but I highly doubt it.

Shouldn't there be a rule about something like that? If you had spotters who could IM you info about what's happening at the other tables, couldn't that be an example? What prevents scouting of other players during an event and then e-mailing it to a player if that person gets moved to the table?

This whole this is probably a joke and I'm just really gullible, certainly a possibility.

[Mike Gallo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does his cockiness bother you or just the general rude demeanor he seems to portray at times?

[/ QUOTE ]
The general rude demeanor. I don't even know why I like people with manners more, but he rubs me the wrong way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might come off as a dick for asking this however, do you know Josh Arieh personally to dislike him?
Or do you dislike him from afar?

[bogey]

Can anyone confirm this laptops at tables thing?

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does his cockiness bother you or just the general rude demeanor he seems to portray at times?

[/ QUOTE ]
The general rude demeanor. I don't even know why I like people with manners more, but he rubs me the wrong way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might come off as a dick for asking this however, do you know Josh Arieh personally to dislike him?
Or do you dislike him from afar?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you come off as a dick, and I dislike from afar. He may be a victim of TV editing to make him look like a cocky young player, so if I ever met him in person I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. However his television impression makes me think he's a wang-tang. Manners make social interaction between strangers much more pleasant, because it gives a standard of behaviour before you know what is appropriate with any particular person. His actions at the table don't seem to represent that.

[Mike Gallo]

Away from table, he demonstrates nothing but southern hospitality /images/graemlins/wink.gifHe's a good ol'e boy from Georgia.

[davidross]

If I read this right, he had 86K left, raised to 19K with AK, then folded when reraised by a bigger stack.

THis is pretty remarkable. I posted a hand earlier this week where I had raised to 1000 out of an 8K stack and got re-raised all-in. I called but suggested later that a fold might have been good, and no one thought the fold was the play. So now I'm confused again. Clearly this is a little difference, this is a 3rd raise instead of a 2nd raise, but I think it just shows that top players hate being all-in without the nuts.

[nolanfan34]

David,

I agree somewhat that it's confusing, but I think that random internet player that you might have a small read on is much different most likely than a potential player that Arieh has played hundreds of live hands with.

He gives no read, but surely he had one. Maybe it was a well known tight pro who pushed.

Keep in mind as well that even by folding, he had like a 65 BB stack left at that point.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Away from table, he demonstrates nothing but southern hospitality /images/graemlins/wink.gifHe's a good ol'e boy from Georgia.

[/ QUOTE ]

He could be a nun for all I care. He's still a dick at the table, which is inexcusable, no matter how he acts away from the table. Say someone's a thief but he takes care of old people at a nursing home in his spare time for free. It doesn't excuse his stealing.

[RiverBear]

Davidross, what were the blinds when you raised to t1000? And did you have a read on the other player, and how close were you to the money?

[logogg]

No I don't know him personally, and I realize that TV intentionally exaggerates "good guys" and "dickheads". (Perhaps) unfortunately for Josh, he has been made the latter. Just a few isolated moments from the 2004 WSOP (e.g. when he pulled David Williams aside after busting out and told him to knock Raymer out ... only moments after berating Williams to the crowd for calling with 55).

Plus the collars on his shirts make me want to murder myself.

If it wasn't for Matusow, Arieh would hold the title in my book.

[PrayingMantis]

I believe laptops were allowed at the tables at the EPT events I have played this year, as I saw at least one player using it while playing.

About the 5k online SNGs, there were few (especially young) players who played them during breaks or before/after they play the events themselves. And while I was playing a side rebuy MTT in monte-carlo, after busting from the main event, there was a guy at my table who started a 5k SNG a few mintutes before our dinner break was over, and then continued to play it a few hands into our live tourney, while folding his real cards, until he lost the on-line SNG. Clearly, it didn't look as if he is in full focus on-line or live, which is a bit stupid for such high stakes, but what do I know (or care).

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
If I read this right, he had 86K left, raised to 19K with AK, then folded when reraised by a bigger stack.

THis is pretty remarkable. I posted a hand earlier this week where I had raised to 1000 out of an 8K stack and got re-raised all-in. I called but suggested later that a fold might have been good, and no one thought the fold was the play. So now I'm confused again. Clearly this is a little difference, this is a 3rd raise instead of a 2nd raise, but I think it just shows that top players hate being all-in without the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it's not exactly on point but it's similiar albeit on a MUCH smaller scale...

$45 buy-in tourney, 100 people, top 9 paid. Blinds at 100/200, stacks for those involved are roughly the same.

EP3 open-raises 3xBB. I have AKs and flat-call. Button moves all-in. Original raiser calls (barely has us both covered). I go into the think-tank....finally muck my hand face up. The table explodes, on my case about how I could fold the hand.

Original raiser had QQ and initial all-in had AA.

[Sluss]

I like Josh Arieh. Might be that I'm a cocky gambling addict too though...

[sloth469]

Second.

[davidross]

I didn't see the blind sizes mentioned so I don't know how deep he was in relation to blinds, but he had made a huge raise.

And I don't want to re-open the discussion, I just still feel that there is a time and place to fold AK and not take the race, even if there is enough money in the pot to make it +EV for that hand.

In Josh's case it seems pretty clear he thought he was against AA or KK and the range of hands I could be against was much wider than that.

[davidross]

In my hand the blinds were 200/400 and I was UTG with AK. THe SB flat called and the BB pushed. He had me covered, and the SB was a real loose cannon. My read was that he had a pair and I was racing, with a small chance of AA or KK and a small chance of AQ or AJ, but I really didn't think he was making a move.

He did have JJ, I called and lost. I posted it afterwards and everyone said I had to call and seemed to feel it wasn't even close. I'm still not sure. I had 6900 before raising and we were still an hour or so from the money. I guess with the SB's money in there it's more than just a little EV, but I was really just trying to find out how often people passed up coinflips, and what the circumstances had to be.

[beset7]

I always wonder if people who make statements like this play b&m poker much. Maybe you do but I suspect not.

Arieh's behavior is MILD compared to the BS I put up with in my normal live games. It barely even causese a blip on my screen. His ego is half the size of some mid-limit players I know and he's usually sober as far as I can tell.

I regret trolling but this sort of criticism is just so pansy-ass. Did you think we are playing eff'n women's tennis or chess? Reminds me of the even stupider paul philips thread in mid/high pl/nl.

[b0000000000m]

It would be helpful to know stack sizes relative to the blinds, even if not relative to each-other. Also the number of players left.

With anything but an uber-short (rel. to blinds) stack, your hand is a very easy fold once you're facing the all-in. And if you did have an uber-short stack, your initial flat-call was horrendous. And regardless of stacks it was at least questionable.

p.s. Perhaps I'm a little grouchy, but mucking the AK face up was both unwise from a poker perspective and super lame in that show-off-y way. Nothing personal on that last point, just my opinion.

[krabby5]

[ QUOTE ]
I always wonder if people who make statements like this play b&m poker much. Maybe you do but I suspect not.

Arieh's behavior is MILD compared to the BS I put up with in my normal live games. It barely even causese a blip on my screen. His ego is half the size of some mid-limit players I know and he's usually sober as far as I can tell.

I regret trolling but this sort of criticism is just so pansy-ass. Did you think we are playing eff'n women's tennis or chess? Reminds me of the even stupider paul philips thread in mid/high pl/nl.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play much B&M but I've seen "tough" guys berate newer players at the 2-4 limits! I have noticed that these jerkoffs can't stand online poker and always assume that all of the younger players are "internet" players and berate them for that..

Then I observe how these guys play, and they have comments all the way through a hand..."damn internet players..", "damn check-raisers..", or..."you called me down with THAT?" after trying a cold-stone bluff at 2-4..ummm how many bluffs do you expect to win at 2-4 idiot?

so finally I just said.."why don't we all just check to the river when you're in the hand?"

so I can't imagine how it is at higher limits...?

[logogg]

Did you think we are playing eff'n women's tennis or chess?

LOL

[-Skeme-]

Ack made him fold KK preflop. Holla!

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I like Josh Arieh. Might be that I'm a cocky gambling addict too though...

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep this [censored] in the WPT forum, this is a strategy post, and a strategy thread.

[doublebrunson]

An ironic nickname indeed sir ...

Is there really any question that this hand folds? Although he's a jackass, Arieh is a good player. Given the range of hands and two players to deal with, does anyone really think he shouldn't fold and wait for a better situation?

This is an obvious lay down. The only one who would call it a brilliant lay down is Hellmuth and that's only if he made it.

If he's a dumb aggressive lobster (DAL) like me, then yes, he calls because bad players like me push marginal odds in a situation like this.