Hand That Crippled Me, Played Right or Wrong? [Archive]

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EasilyFound

04-20-2005, 07:13 AM

$11 SNG. Flame away:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t780)
BB (t1475)
Hero (t595)
MP (t3445)
CO (t505)
Button (t1200)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls t30, MP calls t30, CO raises to t60, 3 folds, Hero calls t30, MP calls t30.

Flop: (t225) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t535 (All-In), MP calls t535, CO calls t445 (All-In).

Turn: (t1740) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t1740) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t1740

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jd Th (one pair, tens).
MP has Kc Js (high card, king).
CO has Ac Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: CO wins t1560. Hero wins t180.

Pepsquad

04-20-2005, 07:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
$11 SNG. Flame away:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t780)
BB (t1475)
Hero (t595)
MP (t3445)
CO (t505)
Button (t1200)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls t30, MP calls t30, CO raises to t60, 3 folds, Hero calls t30, MP calls t30.

Flop: (t225) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t535 (All-In), MP calls t535, CO calls t445 (All-In).

Turn: (t1740) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t1740) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t1740

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jd Th (one pair, tens).
MP has Kc Js (high card, king).
CO has Ac Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: CO wins t1560. Hero wins t180. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay...you asked for it. What in the hell are you doing limping in UTG with J10o?!? This is an auto-muck pre-flop. The fact that you are already 6-handed in level 1 raises the liklihood (I wasn't there - so I don't know) that you've stumbled upon a rare thing on UB...a table full of monkeys. Sadly, you could have probably not played a single hand and monied in this tournament and you blew it. There's your flame. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

BTW, this isn't the hand that crippled you.

Rocco

04-20-2005, 07:23 AM

Fold pre-flop!

EasilyFound

04-20-2005, 07:32 AM

What about post-flop?

SippinSoma

04-20-2005, 07:34 AM

Fold preflop.

Pushing into a field with TPBK doesn't sound right to me. You can be outkicked, or overpaired pretty easily here. MP can call with a lot here and draw out on you. The fact that this is 3-way makes your hand even weaker.

Check the flop and reevaluate where you stand given the action.

It's early and I'm not proofreading. But the answer is played wrong.

L8.

SippinSoma

04-20-2005, 07:37 AM

PS: Do not include the results as it can guide the analaysis towards the results. But my original post, although a little results-oriented, is still true. Pz.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif SS

Pepsquad

04-20-2005, 07:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What about post-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had your stack and had a temporary blood clot causing me to limp UTG and saw that flop, I'd push. I think the flop push was fine, even with two yet to act.

Pep.

SippinSoma

04-20-2005, 07:59 AM

I think it's still a little early for that.

PS, You should really work on your PF so you avoid situations like these more often. Limping UTG is almost always incorrect.

Phil Van Sexton

04-20-2005, 08:57 AM

There are 6 players left at level 2. LEVEL 2!!!

You might want to consider playing a bit more conservatively. If you find this difficult, just click "Autopost blinds and fold" and come back in 15 minutes. It would be better than playing like this.

When when people are playing like morons and knocking each other out, calling from the CO and open pushing on the flop are not really what you should be doing.

GtrHtr

04-20-2005, 09:58 AM

I think you should've folded pre-flop. That being said, you should've considered 3 things before acting pre-flop:

1. Position
2. Position
3. Position

hardinda

04-20-2005, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What about post-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding preflop avoids any post-flop decisions. Playing this hand preflop UTG leads you into situations like this. You can't consider post-flop alone, just can't be done.

Phil Van Sexton

04-20-2005, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What about post-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding preflop avoids any post-flop decisions. Playing this hand preflop UTG leads you into situations like this. You can't consider post-flop alone, just can't be done.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretend he's the BB. I don't think it's a terrible call from the BB.

Against anyone with a brain, open pushing is probably wrong since you will only be called if you are beat. Better lines would be to check/call and let them bluff their money off, or check-raise allin, or check/fold if they show strength.

Here, the big stack called with King-high, so being aggressive with top pair isn't a bad idea. Unfortunately, you still had to deal with the preflop raiser and his monster.

Against players this bad, there's no reason to take risk like this. 4 people have already been knocked out, so you can be patient.

If I had called from the BB here, I probably check/call some small bets, but I wouldn't put my stack in play.

pooh74

04-20-2005, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There are 6 players left at level 2. LEVEL 2!!!

You might want to consider playing a bit more conservatively. If you find this difficult, just click "Autopost blinds and fold" and come back in 15 minutes. It would be better than playing like this.

When when people are playing like morons and knocking each other out, calling from the CO and open pushing on the flop are not really what you should be doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

PVS has hit the nail here...the hand itself itself is not so ineteresting (obviously the pf limp UTG with JT is bad).

What is of notice though is the macro situation. WHen you run into a table like this, every hand you DONT play is tons of equity for you. Everytime you fold PF it should fill you with that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you raise PF and steal at a tight table. This is huge...

Dont try and outplay calling station monkeys with garbage...it wont work. Outplay them by doing nothing (early)...its very Tao...

Voltron87

04-20-2005, 11:09 AM

jesus christ, stop posting all the hands you get crippled on. that frame of mind is such poor poker thinking. when you win hands do you assume you played them right? You are using results oriented thinking, which is not very helpful.

What you should do is post hands where you did not know what to do or did not have a good reason for your line. Don't just post them because you lost a lot of your stack.

willie

04-20-2005, 11:16 AM

glad your toughing it out

but this is a fold preflop for a few reasons

1) the is mediocre at best
2) you can't be confident without flopping 2 pair since any kj, kt, jq, qt, at, aj has you devastated.
3) you're out of position

the push on the flop is absolutely unnecessary as well. i think your aggression is a little too high from some of the hands you've posted.

you've posted hands where you've pushed with hands, and the ONLY hands that are going to call you are ones that have you beat

this is one such case. so essentially you're risking your stack for a 180ish pot.

EasilyFound

04-20-2005, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I had called from the BB here, I probably check/call some small bets, but I wouldn't put my stack in play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate the advice. There is t225, and I have t510 left. What would you consider to be a small bet? Do you measure it in relation to the size of the pot or my stack or some combination of both? I know that there is not hard-and-fast rules, but I am unsure of how measure the value of this hand (after the flop, that is) in relation to the size of bets made and called.