Some questions re. posgrad study in America

[partygirluk]

I have a BSC in Mathematical Economics from the U.K. I want to do postgrad starting in '06 with the strong possibility of eventually acquiring a PhD.

I would like to do my PhD in the States or Canada as they have the best universities and I'd like to experience a different culture + the weather will be better.

I would prefer to do my masters there as well. However, a Masters in the UK is heavily subsidised (for its citizens) whilst the U.S universities seem prohibitively expensive. I am certainly prepared to pay more $ to go to a top U.S. uni, but not $30k a year in tuition fees alone. What is the best way to get this price down. I am really ignorant about how the U.S. system works, be it endowments, scholarships, government funding, whatever.

Finally, I was told by my Canadian lecturer that U.S. universities don't respect U.K Masters qualifications. I got offered a Masters at Cambridge for 04/05 but turned it down, partly for this reason (it was a 1 yr course btw). Other people tell me that if you have a degree from Oxford or Cambridge it will be a massive boon to your chances of succeeding in the States. What is the truth?

Thanks for your help,

Dean

[KJS]

Regarding the first part of your question:

If you are a good student, you should be able to get a master's degree at no charge. Most schools use their grad students as cheap teaching labor, so you will be asked to teach entry level classes in exchange for free tuition and a stipend. I did it and got a master's at no cost to me. Find schools you are interested in and look for their qualifications for Teaching Assistantships.

If you go to a school that has them and you don't get one, you really start your career with a disadvantage, IMO. Your school is basically telling you that you are not as good a student as your peers. Since they are future job competition, it is important to start on an even playing field with them. And free school sure beats 30K/year.

KJS

[Rhone]

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I have a BSC in Mathematical Economics from the U.K. I want to do postgrad starting in '06 with the strong possibility of eventually acquiring a PhD.

I would like to do my PhD in the States or Canada as they have the best universities and I'd like to experience a different culture + the weather will be better.

I would prefer to do my masters there as well. However, a Masters in the UK is heavily subsidised (for its citizens) whilst the U.S universities seem prohibitively expensive. I am certainly prepared to pay more $ to go to a top U.S. uni, but not $30k a year in tuition fees alone. What is the best way to get this price down. I am really ignorant about how the U.S. system works, be it endowments, scholarships, government funding, whatever.

Finally, I was told by my Canadian lecturer that U.S. universities don't respect U.K Masters qualifications. I got offered a Masters at Cambridge for 04/05 but turned it down, partly for this reason (it was a 1 yr course btw). Other people tell me that if you have a degree from Oxford or Cambridge it will be a massive boon to your chances of succeeding in the States. What is the truth?

Thanks for your help,

Dean

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Dean,

(Speaking only about the social sciences)

It will always be easier to get funding for a PhD program than a Masters program, whether or not you're a US citizen. Most PhD programs will not require you to have a masters to enter anyway, so where the degree is from may be a moot point. (Also, many programs will either award one along the way as part of the program, or at least allow you to write a thesis along the way to get it.)

While there may be some financial aid programs available to you as a UK citizen, I would imagine that the vast majority of potential funding is school specific. So find some programs you're interested in, and see what sort of packages they may have for you.

I was in my PhD program for many years, /images/graemlins/tongue.gif , but didn't pay a penny in tuition. I got money from the Ford Foundation and the National Science Foundation (both packages were specific to my school...so again, look first at the programs you might apply to), TA'd for a few years (I don't really know where that money came from, I think 1/2 from my department and 1/2 from the university); and RA'd for a while for a professor who had a ton of his own money.

Good luck,

[Rhone]

I'm not sure how prevelent teaching opportunities for master's students are though...

[partygirluk]

Thanks for the replies so far.

If I choose to do my postgraduate in a different discipline to my undergraduate (such as politics), how does this changes things?

[Rhone]

I don't really think it does. Once you're in a program you're in...where you came from (discipline wise) won't affect funding from that point.

[IronDragon1]

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I'm not sure how prevelent teaching opportunities for master's students are though...

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I'll be @ Virigina Tech doing my MS in Econ with a research assistantship oddly enough.

So I guess it is possible for Master students to not have to be TA's to get money.

I assume I'm more of the exception to the rule though.

[poincaraux]

I don't know about mathemtaical economics, but it's a lot easier to get funding for math than politics. In general, the closer you get to the (hard) sciences, the more likely you are to get paid for. Also, like someone mentioned earlier, it's much easier to get a Ph.D. paid for than a Masters. Many Ph.D. programs let you pick up a Masters along the way for free. You could be a slimy bastard and quit the Ph.D. program after you get the Masters if you want.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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You could be a slimy bastard and quit the Ph.D. program after you get the Masters if you want.

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Depending on where and who your prof is, this is not a given. If you've got research responsibilities, your prof isn't going to just let you go off on your merry way with an MS while you're leaving him hanging.

[partygirluk]

I did the GRE and got

Verbal ~ 670
Quant ~ 790
Analytical ~ 5.5


Now, I know these are pretty good scores, but are they good enough to get into the top top U.S universities? I am worried about my Verbal score and I'd like to get a 6 in the analytical. Also I should get an 800 in the quant next time. Will the schools take into account that the exam is not common in this country and as a result I was at a disadvantage? I really want to go to an elite institution and am thinking of taking the exam again.

[jakethebake]

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Will the schools take into account that the exam is not common in this country and as a result I was at a disadvantage?

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How does this put you at a disadvantage?

[Dynasty]

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Will the schools take into account that the exam is not common in this country and as a result I was at a disadvantage?

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I'm not sure. But, with that attitude, you'll fit right in at elite American universities. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif

The TA route is definitely something you want to explore.

[partygirluk]

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Will the schools take into account that the exam is not common in this country and as a result I was at a disadvantage?

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How does this put you at a disadvantage?

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The disadvantages are subtle, but I am not used to taking this kind of examination unlike Americans who have SATs which AFAIK are similar. Also, lots of people who take the GRE in the USA will have contemporaries also taking it: they can revise together which is always helpful. Also, I may be way off base here, but I suspect undergraduates get help preparing for their GRE from their university, whereas I got no such thing. The language is also slightly different.

Not a massive disadvantage, certainly surmountable, but a disadvantage nonetheless IMHO.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

I can only speak from an engineering school standpoint, so adjust however you think you need to. On average, it's assumed that you will get funding while you're in school from a professor. Typically, you're looking for a research assistantship or some form of grant. This will allow you to knock out two birds with one stone because your work here will both pay for your schooling (plus stipend) as well as go towards your thesis, assuming you have one. Another option is to be a teacher's assistant. This means you teach freshman-sophomore, maybe junior-level classes or lead labs. TA positions generally don't pay as well as RA positions. Many profs make you TA for them for a term or two before they give you an RA position.

I'm not terribly knowledgeable in the exact equivalence between European and American degrees, but I'm pretty sure they won't accept a Master's from Europe as equivalent to a Master's in the US. I'd say you're better off getting the Master's here. Besides, in most places, the Master's pretty much flows into the PhD and it's more like one continuous thing, with your MS marked only by formalities - publishing of a thesis, or essentially the first part of it because you're just continuing it in your PhD, and a walk down the aisle at a graduation ceremony to say you have an MS. It's almost always the case that you get your MS and your PhD in the same place. In fact, in the U of Michigan Aerospace Department (that's the department I know about), there is a written and an oral exam you must pass in order to become a PhD candidate that is based entirely on exactly what is taught in the MS program. Even if you had an MS, you'd most likely end up having to take the MS classes there just to have the right background for the entrance exams.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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Will the schools take into account that the exam is not common in this country and as a result I was at a disadvantage?

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How does this put you at a disadvantage?

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The disadvantages are subtle, but I am not used to taking this kind of examination unlike Americans who have SATs which AFAIK are similar. Also, lots of people who take the GRE in the USA will have contemporaries also taking it: they can revise together which is always helpful. Also, I may be way off base here, but I suspect undergraduates get help preparing for their GRE from their university, whereas I got no such thing. The language is also slightly different.

Not a massive disadvantage, certainly surmountable, but a disadvantage nonetheless IMHO.

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I really think any disadvantage here is quite negligible. I think you're losing more just worrying about it. I would say the only thing that may be a small issue is that maybe some of the language is a bit different.

[Cubswin]

Other people tell me that if you have a degree from Oxford or Cambridge it will be a massive boon to your chances of succeeding in the States. What is the truth?

I have an MSc from LSE and only about 20% of americans i meet have actually heard of the school. Of those 20% that have heard of LSE 100% are impressed by it. Cambridge and Oxford are much better known here so im sure a degree from these two schools would get you going on the right track...

cubs

[zaxx19]

London School of Economics?

You arent hanging out with really bright people.

[disjunction]

From my small knowledge of the system, GRE scores are more of a filter than anything else. Your low verbal score probably won't filter you out of a math-based field, but poly-sci or something it might work against you.

But really, unless you want to play the lottery, the top top schools want to see something other than scores, some project or something puts the oomphasis in your emphasis. There are simply too many applicants with just high test scores and grades.

[zaxx19]

Oh BTW...

You probably arent getting into a top US school for economics...(U of Chicago? now way).

Id try U of Toronto, U of British Columbia, or perhaps McGill in Canada.

$$ is gonna be WAY lower, and since you arent really gonna get into the top American schools why spend so much on a good American school that wont carry more cache than a great Canadian one.

Basically my thinking in undergrad when I chose McGill.

Did you apply to LSE?

[Cubswin]

You arent hanging out with really bright people.

Good looking girls, for the most part, are rocks /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Honestly though, i find that many more people in DC know of LSE as opposed to those back home in chicago. Generally speaking, people from the midwest dont get out of their neighborhood all that much.

cubs

[zaxx19]

Ya, Chicago can fairly provincial on some of these type of things.

When I tell people here I go to McGill they either respond with a blank stare or fawn all over me like McGill is CalTech or something.

LSE is the shiz ....who cares if Chicagoans know or not.

Plus Mick Jagger went there!!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[disjunction]

Every time I read a kickass paper it seems to come out of McGill.

I hope you weren't replying to me in the above thread. I have no doubt that I would not get into a top economics school, but that's only because I've never taken an economics course in my life!

[Dead]

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When I tell people here I go to McGill they either respond with a blank stare or fawn all over me like McGill is CalTech or something.


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It's not

But HAH. And you made fine of my school.

Let me just save this post.

My school is more competitive than yours. Hypocrite.

Pwned.

[gvibes]

Holy crap. I didn't really realize what LSE means either. Nice work.

And if you're a TA, you'll one huge advantage over about 80% of Math TA's - you'll be a native english speaker.

Definitely do the TA route.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
When I tell people here I go to McGill they either respond with a blank stare or fawn all over me like McGill is CalTech or something.

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Yeah, cause nothing like the 8th best graduate engineering school in the country. Pshh.

[Ass Master]

I can only comment on graduate school in the US.

The first thing I would do in your situation is consider the possibility of applying directly to a PhD program. The reasons are as follows:

(1) In many departments, the PhD student will receive some sort of financial assistance from the department, usually as a teaching assistant or research assistant (abbrev. TA and RA respectively). On the other hand, students in a terminal masters degree program more often will have to pay their way (e.g. with student loans) as they are subordinate to the PhD students when trying to procure TA or RA positions, if not outright excluded.

(2) Generally in a PhD program you can get your masters degree on the way as a natural consequence of fulfilling your PhD program requirements. At that point, you have the option of quitting the program and walking away with your masters degree. (I don't think the department will usually be thrilled if you do this unless you mutually agree you are in fact not "PhD material".)

Whether your UK masters is "respected" by a US PhD program will probably differ more on a department to department basis rather than university to university. I think in many cases having a UK masters will not automatically exempt you from some of the initial PhD program requirements, however you may be able to test out of them using your masters level of knowledge.

I cannot comment for sure on the veracity of reports that a UK masters would significantly increase your chance of success in a US PhD program, but I think they are probably reasonable. As stated in the previous paragraph, the knowledge itself may aid you in testing out of some initial program requirements, or at least making the initial phase easier to get through.

[pshreck]

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Finally, I was told by my Canadian lecturer that U.S. universities don't respect U.K Masters qualifications.

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Umm, I'm not an expert, but considering that the most prestigious scholarship offered to undergraduates in the United States is a scholarship to Oxford, I'm pretty sure this Canadian lecturer is clueless.

[pshreck]

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When I tell people here I go to McGill they either respond with a blank stare or fawn all over me like McGill is CalTech or something.


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It's not

But HAH. And you made fine of my school.

Let me just save this post.

My school is more competitive than yours. Hypocrite.

Pwned.

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Dead, the only 2 schools in the state of New York that are on McGill's level are Cornell and NYU, and Im pretty sure you dont go to either one of those. I wouldnt expect anything from less than you but a comment like this.

[shemp]

I haven't read the thread, so maybe this is redundant. A few points... Oxbridge and to a lesser extent LSE tend to induce boners in the states regardless of what the degree may mean in specific situations -- so definitely consider any of them. You shouldn't have to pay as you'll provide slave labor. What I didn't get from your post was a sense of where you want to be (other than in school). If you start with your career aspirations I may be able to offer more FREE advice.

[zaxx19]

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Dead, the only 2 schools in the state of New York that are on McGill's level are Cornell and NYU, and Im pretty sure you dont go to either one of those. I wouldnt expect anything from less than you but a comment like this.


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DEAD goes to SUNY-Geneseo.....(now I get real quiet like and just let DEAD look McGill up on the net to figure out what a jackass he just made out of himself..)


McGill thanx the kind words pshreck... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Id say its very similiar to UVA or U of M admissions wise for the record.

[pshreck]

yeah, I have a really good friend who goes to Concordia, and his two brilliant siblings went to McGill. Basically what I have heard about it is that it is on par with the top 25 schools in the United States (which makes it really, really good).

I am dumbfounded even Dead would stoop to a statement as dumb as he made.... SUNY Geneseo.... this really makes me laugh that he puts it anywhere near McGill.

[Boris]

670 on the verbal is actually pretty good. your quant score is fine. Your analytical score is disturbingly low. Maybe take the test again? check out the M.S. Econ program at montana state university. They have lots of grant money and they send lots of students to top tier Ph.D. programs. I also guarantee you will get a good education in price theory.

[Blarg]

Let me add one thing to the discussion that is vital to your selection of the best country in which to gain your advanced degree.

American women go completely nuts for a British accent. Adapt by taking more showers than the typical European and you will have a fun life here.

[JaBlue]

are you talking about a fulbright scholarship?

Also this canadian person is clueless. I would say that out of the people I know, they respect Oxford and Cambridge a hell of a lot more than the best American institutions - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, whatever.

[Blarg]

Americans are lovers of all kinds of royalty. Why do you think we gave a damn about Diana? We can't help ourselves. Harvard, Yale, and Stanford all provoke gurgling and a sort of stunned awe, but Oxford and Cambridge almost prompt the release of bodily fluids.

[Dead]

Good schools with high acceptance rates. What?

McGill's is above 50%. Geneseo's is 42%. Do the math. It's the most selective public college in the Northeast.

The NY Times called Geneseo a public ivy, so you don't know what the [censored] you're talking about.

But, hey, you're pshreck, so that's to be expected.

And if McGill produced a dumbass like you, Zaxx, then I don't have much respect for the school's academics.

Hey, the SAT/ACT information is not online. How surprising. McGill says that it is N/A.

[sublime]

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you bring up a great point.

[jakethebake]

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you bring up a great point.

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ni han

[partygirluk]

If I choose economics I am thinking of doing my thesis on the online gambling industry. It is unlikely to have been researched thoroughly yet (from an economic point of view) and is a very interesting business model. Plus it is something I would really like to do research into.

Thoughts?

[Dynasty]

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If I choose economics I am thinking of doing my thesis on the online gambling industry. It is unlikely to have been researched thoroughly yet (from an economic point of view) and is a very interesting business model. Plus it is something I would really like to do research into.

Thoughts?

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You'll have a hard time getting the data you need.

[Blarg]

I don't know what professors would think of the topic, but it's got a lot of appeal for the layman.

[istewart]

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Dead, the only 2 schools in the state of New York that are on McGill's level are Cornell and NYU, and Im pretty sure you dont go to either one of those. I wouldnt expect anything from less than you but a comment like this.


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NYU? Laugh...

And you forgot Columbia.