Improper to open with the nut flush draw?

[petvan]

Assuming stack sizes are equal for a second, and you don't have any reads, is it wrong to open with a probe of say 1/3 or so of the pot when you pick up the nut flush draw on the flop?

Recently I was chastised for this after I did so in on the BB in a 5 player pot. My reasoning for leading was that I was out of position, no one showed strength pre flop, and I thought my probe might get a few to fold, and worse case give me another card with decent odds assuming it induced only callers (I bet about 1/4 pot). Or, someone rereaises and lets me know where I stand.

I'm thinking that if it is ok to call when you have the right odds, it is also sound to open when the texture is right, so long as you aren't putting your stack at risk, and the resultant pot justifies the bet (of course still folding to a reraise that compromises your faviourable odds)

Am I thinking about this right? Often I think hanging out and hoping for the flush to fill to then trap, or raise is often too blatent. Not sure if this is a big leak in my game if I do periodically.

P

[Phil Van Sexton]

I think betting out is fine. You are correct this may win you the pot when you really have no hand yet, and helps you to get paid off big time when the flush does hit.

It depends on your position, number of players in the pot, pot size, stack sizes, etc....but, in general its fine. It's best if you are the middle and can get the players behind you to fold so you can check behind on the turn if you miss.

I would say that I've been seeing a lot of people bet out with really small bets or min bets with draws. I think they are doing this as a blocking bet hoping to see the turn cheaply rather than face a real bet from someone else. This is a bit of a tell, IMO. If you are going to bet, make a real bet like 1/2 pot.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
I think betting out is fine. You are correct this may win you the pot when you really have no hand yet, and helps you to get paid off big time when the flush does hit.

It depends on your position, number of players in the pot, pot size, stack sizes, etc....but, in general its fine. It's best if you are the middle and can get the players behind you to fold so you can check behind on the turn if you miss.

I would say that I've been seeing a lot of people bet out with really small bets or min bets with draws. I think they are doing this as a blocking bet hoping to see the turn cheaply rather than face a real bet from someone else. This is a bit of a tell, IMO. If you are going to bet, make a real bet like 1/2 pot.

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As usual, Phil makes great points - especially the stuff about making a real bet.

A couple more things. If the field is large like the hand you mentioned as an example, I think betting is dangerous. With 3 people left to act, your odds of folding them all are small, and the chance of a raise increases. If there are 3 or less in the field, I typically bet - 5 or more I check/call. 4 to the flop and it depends on my position.

One more thing to take into account is board texture. Lets say you have Kx suited, and the flop comes 2 flush A high. I would be hesitant to bet into a field with an A high flop, fearing that it hit someone and a raise will make my draw very expensive.

[petvan]

Great points.. This latter is what I did actually, thinking I might represent the Ace and see what happens, though in retrospect, I should have bet 1/2-3/4's to push out draws and properly represent it.

I tend to get some concepts right, and apply them wrong ;-)

Thanks

P

[prepotency]

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I think they are doing this as a blocking bet

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Is this your own term or where did you read it?

[Phil Van Sexton]

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I think they are doing this as a blocking bet

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Is this your own term or where did you read it?

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The Theory of Poker, I think.