Last one.... this was a misclick, but should it have been intentional?

[SomethingClever]

SB is a loose-passive fish. Should this river fold be standard?

It was an accident.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

[krishanleong]

No.

Krishan

[Surfbullet]

No.

Surf

[Grisgra]

4-handed, no.
6-handed, against a loose-passive fish . . . I think you're close to break-even here whether you call or fold. I don't think that in a 6-handed game you get checkraised on the river by anything that doesn't beat TPTK. Hell, you probably don't in a 4-handed game either.

This is not a laydown I can make more than once a session, as I'm afraid shots will be taken at me, but . . . against a loose-passive fish, getting 11:1 odds against a river checkraise when I've got TPTK? There are worse folds.

(FWIW, I rarely have the balls to fold here unless I have a much better read than "he's a fish".)

[rory]

I fold there.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, that makes me feel better /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I see a lot of these posts where the hero has a decent hand but faces aggression on the turn or river against what seems to be a predictable opponent, and inevitably there is a chorus of "call down, call down!". Just not convinced, especially at 5/10 and lower where the default is that such action means quite a bit of strength.

[Fiddler]

I have run into a couple of players at Stars 2/4 that could check-raise two players on that river with A6/A9 or something like that... but they couldn't be called loose and passive. So I think you probably should fold here... not sure I'd be able to myself though.

[rory]

The reason why I fold is hero bet, there was a call and THEN a raise. On the river. With a paired board and a blank river card out there. He either has like quads or 2 outered the hero. Very little chance that person is bluffing, unless they are crazy. Almost no way a loose passive is bluffing. Certainly not 1 in 11 or 1 in 12 times. Maybe 1 in 40 or something.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason why I fold is hero bet, there was a call and THEN a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this was what I thought after the fact too.

I was rushing back to make a crying call, accidentally clicked fold, then thought, "Hmm, I bet I just saved myself a bet."

Villain was really passive and odd. Something like 65/2/0.3

He either liked to slowplay, or just had no idea that he should bet his hands for value.

He had waited until the river to raise a monster earlier as well.

Here he had an 8.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason why I fold is hero bet, there was a call and THEN a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just shows you how carefully I read hand histories . . .

Yeah, with the call in there it's a 100% fold, no questions asked. My point is that if it's HU against a predictable opponent I think that your TPTK is beat around 95% of the time in a 6-handed game against a normally passive opponent who has just checkraised you on the river. (Probably in a 4-handed game as well, but he might get friskier there with TPGK).

[krishanleong]

Rory and Grisgra are correct. You need better than TPTK when an average players checkraises 2 players on the river. This fold is top notch poker.

Krishan

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

I call, but then I always call. Sort of a problem, you see.