KQs on the button cold call

[eejit]

After 20k hands of break even poker my confidence is completely shot. When I was running good I always seemed to be on the right side of calling down raises from maniacs, and folding 2nd best to good players. Now I seem to have it backwards more often than not.
Played about 30 hands with the villian, nothing out of the ordinary so far, about 20/7/2.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 B

[shant]

I would've folded preflop.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

Can you three bet this pre-flop? Or is that out of the question?

[einbert]

His PFR is 7, and he raised UTG at a 10-handed table.

You have to fold PF.

[mute]

Is your read here on UTG or BB? (i'm assuming UTG).

With no callers I think you can fold this preflop given the stats (though 30 hands aint much).

If BB is a sane person, then I think you can fold the river.

[admiralfluff]

you can 3 bet this preflop if you have a read on UTG. He would have to be capable of raising a very wide range of hands UTG, maybe pfr of 16-20%, for me to make that 3 bet. Against an unknown it's an easy fold.

[eejit]

Sorry, the stats are for utg

[KDawgCometh]

YOu have to fold this PF with no other coldcallers in. UTG's raising hands will have you dominated on many fronts. I certianly wouldn't have capped the flop there(maybe if I had another backdoor draw besides TP2K/backdoor flush). I don't see how you can call the BBs CR on teh turn, yes you did put in a bet already but he's CRing the PF raiser and you with a board that dictates action

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
After 20k hands of break even poker my confidence is completely shot. When I was running good I always seemed to be on the right side of calling down raises from maniacs, and folding 2nd best to good players. Now I seem to have it backwards more often than not.
Played about 30 hands with the villian, nothing out of the ordinary so far, about 20/7/2.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 B

[/ QUOTE ]

A few things:
(1) If your confidence is rattled, I'd let this go pf. What are you hoping UTG has? JJ-99 and maybe AJo. All other reasonable UTG raising hands have you in massive trouble. The ones I listed are simply ahead of you, not crushing you. Plus, the pot is short-handed, which kills your flush value.

(2) You told UTG on the flop that you have a queen, and he told you he doesn't care. Call the 3-bet.

(3) BB's c/r on the turn should tell you to get lost. He sat there quietly while you two went bonkers on the flop, and the c/r'ed 2 guys who CLEARLY like their hands. Dump it on the turn.

[blatz]

I'm trying to get better at tossing good looking, yet hopeless hands, to a turn raise. Let's look at the clues:

Solid numbers, cold called two bets twice on the flop, and then check raises a 3 better and a capper on the turn when he wouldn't be getting value raising the flush draw.

At best your drawing to 2-3 outs, I'd let it go on the turn raise (or rather I'd call, and afterwards say "oh yeah, I meant to not do that)

[Piiop]

So, obviously no one really likes the preflop call, but the more important part of this hand is postflop and you really played it poorly.

What hands do you think the seemingly decent player is going to 3-bet you on the flop with that you're ahead of?
What is the BB calling 2 cold twice with on the flop?
What is the BB checkraising the turn with against 2 players after all that flop action?
How often do you think you will win this pot after the BB checkraises turn?

If you're going to make this coldcall preflop, you can't play it like this postflop.

[27offsooot]

I would've folded PF, not capped the flop, and i think folded to the turn c/r by bb, given that bb is not a total donk.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
you can 3 bet this preflop if you have a read on UTG. He would have to be capable of raising a very wide range of hands UTG, maybe pfr of 16-20%, for me to make that 3 bet. Against an unknown it's an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

[imported_CaseClosed326]

Solid, thanks. How many people call before you call?

[eejit]

After posting this and looking at it, along with the responses, I can't understand how I couldn't see how poorly I played this in the first place. It's the kind of hand I would see someone else post, and think, wow this guy is horrible.
I think maybe I need a break.
Thanks to everybody for the input.

[admiralfluff]

[ QUOTE ]
Solid, thanks. How many people call before you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

This would depend somewhat on your reads on the blinds. If both blinds were loose, You could porobably get away with being 3rd in. If the blinds were tight, I'd want to see at least 3 non-rocks cold call before me. You shouldn't be playing this hand a lot against an UTG raise.

[ckessel]

Well, I feel like an idiot. Everyone's folding PF, but most any text I can find seems to suggest calling this, even SSH. I can certainly see why it's a poor idea given who raised and from where.

Note to self in the future with KQs...