Hand vs Sponger

[thatpfunk]

So Sponger is notoriously a tight nit.

If I call on the turn he knows I have the straight and will fold 2 pair, set, etc to a bet on the river. If i just push I think this is my only chance to get a call from a worse hand. And stack sizes make this pretty uninteresting.



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($55.91)
MP ($20.08)
CO ($51.02)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($33.9)</font>
SB ($38.7)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($23.95)</font>

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1, MP calls $1.

Flop: ($3.85) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $3</font>, MP calls $3, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($12.85) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $12</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $24</font>...

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
So Sponger is notoriously a tight nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't paying attention to the table at all (pfunk knows this because we are talking on AIM about the table and all my responses were "huh?"), so my stats were 11vpip/4pfr

pfunk is an out of control LAG whos stats during this session ended up being 40vpip/26pfr after 80 hands.

But since we know each other quite well none of this really matters because I know he doesn't suck postflop. We have played several thousands hands online, and played a few live sessions together.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Is there any other way to play it?

[MarkL444]

why not raise the flop? he doesnt know you dont have AK.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
why not raise the flop? he doesnt know you dont have AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would I bet into 1 player + PFR with on that board?

Also, since he has been raising a ton, it would be hard for me to even think he has AK even if he raises the flop

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any other way to play it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just call the turn and hope I bet again with a hand he beats.

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why not raise the flop? he doesnt know you dont have AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would I bet into 1 player + PFR with on that board?

Also, since he has been raising a ton, it would be hard for me to even think he has AK even if he raises the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

ohhh, for some reason i thought you were hero. i got confused /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Sponger15SB]

In case anyone cares:

The BB (me) ended up letting his entire time clock run down while typing "hmmmm" multiple times, and then called with AK

Blank on the river.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Is there any other way to play it?


[/ QUOTE ]


Just call the turn and hope I bet again with a hand he beats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you really bet again with ANY hand that doesn't have him at least tied on that four-straight board? If you have a set or two pair or a lone Ace I don't want to give you a chance to river me. Might as well shove the turn. Better hands are getting all your chips anyway, and some hands might become better if you don't get all in now.

-Kings

[Jason Strasser]

Your turn raise is hideous unless sponger plays flush draws like this. Seriously what hand do you put him on at the turn? I guarantee he checks a fd to you on the turn most of the time anyway. I guess if you could get him to fold a king, thats fine, but apparently your image is not so good for getting people to fold second nut hands which is fine.

You have to just call the turn here. Raising really has no value vs a decent player.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
Your turn raise is hideous unless sponger plays flush draws like this. Seriously what hand do you put him on at the turn? I guarantee he checks a fd to you on the turn most of the time anyway. I guess if you could get him to fold a king, thats fine, but apparently your image is not so good for getting people to fold second nut hands which is fine.

You have to just call the turn here. Raising really has no value vs a decent player.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well what value does calling have? It either has to save you money when you're behind, or earn you more money when you're ahead. I don't see the hero making another dime on this hand if he's ahead and just calls, while he could lose more chips by letting a worse hand see the river.

Pushing the turn at least forces players with a worse hand to make a mistake by calling to draw out on you, while if you just call they can cut their losses by shutting down on the river. Any worse hand that calls you on the river would call you on the turn anyway.

That's my 2c

-Kings

[TheWorstPlayer]

How about a set of queens that is drawing very live here? Think Sponger might play that hand like this?

[Jason Strasser]

[ QUOTE ]
Well what value does calling have? It either has to save you money when you're behind, or earn you more money when you're ahead. I don't see the hero making another dime on this hand if he's ahead and just calls, while he could lose more chips by letting a worse hand see the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hold on one moment. I think there is a gap in your logic here.









Two thoughts:
1) What hand is going to call a substantial raise?
2) What's the best line if your opponent is bluffing the turn?