Hitler's Revenge...

[KaneKungFu123]

never thought id see the day when a nazi was elected pope.

hail the masta race.

[benfranklin]

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never thought id see the day when a nazi was elected pope.

hail the masta race.

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Wrong forum. You want the National Inquirer Nazi Conspiracy Forum. It's just below the Elvis Sightings Forum.

[BCPVP]

Wow, the ignorance in these two sentences is amazing...

[zaxx19]

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never thought id see the day when a nazi was elected pope.



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Why not? One was elected UN secretary and provided with millions for his retirement....

But of course US/Israel should accept the UN as a fair and supreme arbitrater in world affairs....what a joke.

[Dead]

I hope AC doesn't see this post. He'll jump on your ass as well.

He didn't have a choice in being a Nazi! lol.

[BCPVP]

I'd say either becoming a Hitler Youth or being killed is an example of not having a choice...

[partygirluk]

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I hope AC doesn't see this post. He'll jump on your ass as well.

He didn't have a choice in being a Nazi! lol.

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He never was a member of the Nazi party! lol.

[bholdr]

actually, i thought the 'masta race' comment was witty and ironic, though unintentionally so.

[caretaker1]

lol

[Dead]

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I'd say either becoming a Hitler Youth or being killed is an example of not having a choice...

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There is almost always a choice, BCPVP. There was a choice in this case. The honorable thing to do would have been to run away.

[benfranklin]

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There is almost always a choice, BCPVP. There was a choice in this case. The honorable thing to do would have been to run away.

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You are beating a DEAD horse here. The guy was 14, there is no indication that most civilians were aware of any Nazi atrocities at that time, and there was enormous social and political pressure on the boys and their families to join what appeared to be a patriotic youth group. The little evidence now available indicates that he worked within the system to resist.

It is very easy to sit here in 21st Century America, fat and happy, and say what he might or should have done. How finely tuned was your sense of honor at 14? The average 14-year-old in this country wouldn't get out of bed in the name of honor, let alone actually do anything.

I am not a Catholic, and couldn't care less about the Pope, but this Hitler Youth thing is knee-jerk bigotry, and it's sad and depressing that people can be that ignorant of history, and so quick to judge situations about which they are obviously clueless.

[BCPVP]

Bingo!
Dead, don't insult our intelligences by pretending that German youth actually had a choice much less knew what was going with the concentration camps, etc. If you want to make a fool out of yourself by continuing to believe he had a choice, go for it.

[Dead]

Bingo!Bingo!Bingo!Bingo!Bingo!/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Saying he didn't have a choice doesn't make it so. He had a choice. OTHER German youths opposed the Hitler Youth and refused to join. So don't tell me he didn't have a choice.

Republikaner sind nazin heute.

[BCPVP]

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Saying he didn't have a choice doesn't make it so. He had a choice. OTHER German youths opposed the Hitler Youth and refused to join. So don't tell me he didn't have a choice.

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So because a few (and I'm sure it was a small few) decided to resist that means that all had that same opportunity and are all Nazis, regardless of their feelings towards the Nazis? Please. Hindsight's 20/20. Does it even register in your head that he wasn't a willing participant and wound up deserting the German military later on? I guess you'd probably ignore that his father was anti-Nazi who had to move the family around because of his activities. I suppose none of this means anything to you either:
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Election of Cardinal Ratzinger as new Pope welcomed

April 19, 2005

New York, NY - The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today welcomed the election of German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as the new Pope, Benedict XVI. Under his leadership in Germany and Rome, the Catholic Church made important strides in improving Catholic-Jewish relations and atoning for the sin of anti-Semitism. Cardinal Ratzinger has been a leader in this effort and has made important statements in the spirit of sensitivity and reconciliation with the Jewish people.

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

We welcome the new Papacy of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. From the Jewish perspective, the fact that he comes from Europe is important, because he brings with him an understanding and memory of the painful history of Europe and of the 20th Century experience of European Jewry.

Having lived through World War II, Cardinal Ratzinger has great sensitivity to Jewish history and the Holocaust. He has shown this sensitivity countless times, in meetings with Jewish leadership and in important statements condemning anti-Semitism and expressing profound sorrow for the Holocaust. We remember with great appreciation his Christmas reflections on December 29, 2000, when he memorably expressed remorse for the anti-Jewish attitudes that persisted through history, leading to "deplorable acts of violence" and the Holocaust. Cardinal Ratzinger said: "Even if the most recent, loathsome experience of the Shoah (Holocaust) was perpetrated in the name of an anti-Christian ideology, which tried to strike the Christian faith at its Abrahamic roots in the people of Israel, it cannot be denied that a certain insufficient resistance to this atrocity on the part of Christians can be explained by an inherited anti-Judaism present in the hearts of not a few Christians."

Though as a teenager he was a member of the Hitler Youth, all his life Cardinal Ratzinger has atoned for the fact. In our years of working on improving Catholic-Jewish ties, ADL has had opportunities to work with Cardinal Ratzinger. We look forward to continuing that relationship.

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http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/nfo/article.cfm?id=3908

So enough of this Nazi bullshit.

[Dead]

Ironic that you're citing an ADL endorsement. Didn't think you neocons liked the ADL much. It must be the Israeli bond.

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Though as a teenager he was a member of the Hitler Youth, all his life Cardinal Ratzinger has atoned for the fact.

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If he did nothing wrong, as you claim,, then why does he have to atone? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[BCPVP]

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If he did nothing wrong, as you claim,, then why does he have to atone?

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Because of people like you.

[Dead]

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If he did nothing wrong, as you claim,, then why does he have to atone?

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Because of people like you.

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Best non-answer ever.

[benfranklin]

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Saying he didn't have a choice doesn't make it so. He had a choice.

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Saying he had a choice doesn't make that so either. No matter how many times you say it without facts. He was forced into the Hitler Youth and he found a way out of it. Actually, that seems like a choice to me.

If he was a Nazi, I'd be as interested as anyone in the facts. The only facts so far, limited but undisputed, are that he was forced into the Hitler Youth and got out, and that he was drafted into the army, and deserted. That sure doesn't sound like a good little Nazi to me.

As for the ADL statement that he "atoned" for being in the Hitler Youth, that is the ADL's take on it. There is no evidence that he felt he had done anything he needed to atone for.

The guy is a hardline conservative Catholic. If you don't like that, address it with reason and fact. Personal attacks on the Pope are not going to discredit Church doctrine. There have been quite a few such attacks here today, and zero evidence that the guy did anything wrong, legally or morally. Or that he did anything to espouse or aid the Nazi cause. Everything I heard sounded just like a bunch of kids standing outside some guy's house, chanting "Nazi, Nazi, Nazi."

Name-calling, especially without evidence, is childish and ignorant, and destroys the credibility of any other arguments.

[Dead]

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The guy is a hardline conservative Catholic.

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That's not why I am attacking him.

I have defended the Catholic church endlessly on this forum. Ask vulturesrow.

JPII was a conservative as well, and I mourned his death.

[Cyrus]

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If he did nothing wrong, as you claim,, then why does he have to atone?

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Good question.

Every German of a certain age was in the Hitler youth. This organisation was more inclusive than its communist counterpart, the Pioneers. You were German, you were in - whereas you had to be a Soviet citizen and a communist, even at 14, to join the Communist Youth.

The climate at the time (ie 1930s) was one of extreme polarisation. Democracy was ridiculed from left and right - literally. There was a red, bolshevik, anti-nationalist phantom scaring Europe so the more vehement and pro-nationalist its opponents were the more chances they had to win over the people. Hitler, a fierce anti-communist, was widely admired in the West at the time. Among his admirers was Churchill who repeatedly praised his abilities and politics, going as far as praying the England would have someone like Hitler in similar times of need. Being in the Hitler Youth, then, was NOT equivalent at all to being a guard at a death camp.

True, Hitler Youth were indoctrinated with anti-semitism (an ideological trait that runs in the arteries of the Catholic Church for centuries) but anti-semitism was, again, a common trait of almost all politicians at the time, French, Spanish, British, Scandinavians, etc.

It took Hitler, who eventually brought anti-semitism to its horrible apex, through the systematic murder of millions, to bring the European anti-semites face to face with the implication and unavoidable end-consequences of intolerance and prejudice. Hitler took the European anti-semitism of centuries to its logical conclusion -- and Europe, horrified, drew back in regret and shame. But being in the Hitler Youth in the 1930s did not yet mean any of these things.

People change.

I am not much of a believer, if you can take such a huge understatement, but I do hope that the new Pope is gonna help the world a bit. I don't expect much in the matters of morality or liturgy, where he will be a "conservative", but in his pronouncements and the line he draws on social matters. The late Pope was a thorn in the sides of western imperialism (eg anti-war in Iraq) and turbo-capitalism (eg throwing his weight behind the pro-environmental movement).

Give him the opportunity to show us his agenda. Dismissing him for being in the Hitler Youth when 14 is facile. (It's less relevant than masturbating when 14.)

--Cyrus

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Best non-answer ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not exactly sure what I didn't answer. What he did wasn't good, but he had no real other options. Getting yourself killed over resisting hardly seems like a viable option for a 14 year old to be making. You have time and distance between you and that event, so it's easy for you to armchair.

I don't see why you're so upset anyway, when you have many Jews endorsing the new pope. You can add Ed Koch to that growing list:
[ QUOTE ]
Criticism of Ratzinger's Youthful Past Unfounded

By Ed Koch

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany has been elected as the next Pope of the Roman Catholic Church and will take the name Benedict XVI. There are some who may criticize the election of Cardinal Ratzinger, since he joined the Hitler Youth at age 14 as a child growing up in Germany. I think any such criticism is unfounded.

How can the decision to join the Hitler Youth corps be the responsibility of a child? The Nazis brilliantly exploited German children with the games and military outfits that most youngsters enjoy. Former New York Times Executive Editor, Max Frankel, in the opening paragraph of his book, The Times of My Life and My Life With The Times, summed up a child’s feelings at the time: “I was not yet three years old when Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933, and I could have become a good little Nazi in his army. I loved the parades: I wept when other kids marched beneath our window without me. But I was ineligible for the Aryan race, the Master Race that Hitler wanted to purify of Jewish blood and other pollutants so that it could rule the world for ‘a thousand years.’”

The leader of the Hitler Jugend, Balder von Shirach, was convicted at Nuremberg after the war and sentenced to 20 years in prison. However, the Allies did not find that the Hitler Jugend organization itself was a criminal organization.

If Cardinal Ratzinger had not joined the Hitler Youth, it would have been because his parents kept him out, which some but very few parents did with their children. While Germans were not automatically jailed or shot for such conduct, you can be sure that refusing to cooperate with the Nazi authorities would had subjected them to adversity. Very few people had the courage to stand up to the Nazi murderers, especially when their children’s lives were involved.

One of the highest priorities of the new Pope hopefully will be to maintain a close relationship between Jews and Catholics, an effort begun by Pope John XXIII and vastly expanded by Pope John Paul II. I hope it is seen as a priority by the new Pope. Of course, the new Pope will continue to seek a reconciliation with other Christian faiths and a continuing dialogue with the representatives of Islam.

Cardinal Ratzinger in his homily delivered immediately before the conclave said he does not believe in syncretism, the attempt to reconcile different faiths. He probably would not attend on any occasion the service of another faith. He is not alone in this position. Orthodox rabbis (but not Conservative or Reform rabbis) take the same position as do some Protestant clergy. Indeed, some would go so far as to seek to punish a member of their sect if he were to participate in or even attend a joint service commemorating a public event, including memorializing a tragedy such as 9-11. Pope John Paul II visited a Roman synagogue -- the first Pope to do so -- and placed a written prayer in a crevice of the Western Wall. That, for me, set the standard. It is my hope that Cardinal Ratzinger as Pope will follow in his footsteps, and that others, Jewish and Protestant, will embrace as John Paul II did, members of other faiths, remembering we will all ultimately answer to the same God.

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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-4_19_05_EK.html