Flopped a set on a scary board

[Pil Sung Do]

I was dealt 8h 8c from the CO
UTG, UTG+1 limp, I limp, SB and BB call.

The flop is [Jh 9h 8s]
SB checks, BB bets $1, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds
I call (I plan on waiting til the turn to raise, dependant on what card falls), SB calls.
The turn is [4s]
Checked to me and I bet. Everyone calls /images/graemlins/confused.gif

The river is [Ks]
Blinds check, UTG bets $2, I raise to $4.


Well??

[jrz1972]

Raise the flop.

Even if a scary card hits on the turn, you have a bunch of outs against a straight or flush.

[crownjules]

Raise the flop. You've already got almost the entire field trapped for 2 bets. Get the maximum value out of your hand. Even if someone has the straight or makes it on the turn card, you have 10 outs to a boat or quads.

[joeski19]

I used to do that too. Call the flop, and raise the turn when I can get two big bets. I don't use that line much anymore. Raise the flop, bet the turn, bet the river.

[ErrantNight]

raise preflop.

raise the flop.

both are easy.

the flop isn't that scary. and that it's at ALL coordinated means you should be charging people starting NOW. if they have a T, they're not going anywhere, but THEY'RE drawing. you probably can't offer them poor enough odds on any street not to continue. so just fast-play it. and if a Q falls and everyone wakes up and goes to town you can slow down and see if you fill up on the river. if you don't, get out.

[sungod]

I would raise this preflop. I would instincly raise the flop as well. Perhaps that is wrong? The rest seems fine.

[benkath1]

I would raise every chance I get. You have a nice hidden hand that will will well over half the pots you are in. Don't wait for the turn to raise, you already have one guy trapped, and you never know, SB might call 2 cold for poops and grins.

Ben

[deception5]

Really raise this preflop? I thought this was the perfect situation to limp - with UTG and UTG+1 limping we will likely be getting exactly 5 to the flop, a good number if we hit the set. Raising we will have 3-4 to the flop which I thought was exactly the number we don't want as it's somewhere between a pair holding up and getting enough value for the set. Also I doubt with those 2 limpers that we have much folding equity if an Ace or King flops.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

Thanks,
D5

[McGahee]

I'm don't think it matters that much what you do with this flop (ie whether you wait for the turn). Miller recommends waiting till the turn here with 2 pair. I'm not sure if you should push your edge on the flop because a set is a stronger hand? But it's still not beating a straight, although you do have more redraws at a boat than you would with 2 pair.
I don't know what to do on the river either. Though you could easily have UTG beat, I'd probably just call him bet without a read. Hard to give him credit for Q10 but he might've picked up a flush. An all around tough hand IMO.

[aK13]

Why do you want to wait for a safe card on the turn to raise? You can't protect your hand against any flush/OES draws -- they are with you to the bitter end. Just get the money in while you have the edge.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm don't think it matters that much what you do with this flop (ie whether you wait for the turn). Miller recommends waiting till the turn here with 2 pair. I'm not sure if you should push your edge on the flop because a set is a stronger hand? But it's still not beating a straight, although you do have more redraws at a boat than you would with 2 pair.
I don't know what to do on the river either. Though you could easily have UTG beat, I'd probably just call him bet without a read. Hard to give him credit for Q10 but he might've picked up a flush. An all around tough hand IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

With two pair, you've only got 4 outs to beat a straight or flush (and your bottom two pair can be counterfeit). With a set, you've got 2.5 times as many (10 outs) and no chance of being counterfeit. Therefore, your hand is less vulnerable. There's as much to gain by waiting until the turn. Raise this one on the flop.

[ChoicestHops]

I'd raise pre-flop and bet/re-raise the flop. My sets always seem to hit scary boards like this as well.

After the turn, I'd most likely just call. You wont knock anyone out, and I'd hope for a full house.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Really raise this preflop? I thought this was the perfect situation to limp - with UTG and UTG+1 limping we will likely be getting exactly 5 to the flop, a good number if we hit the set. Raising we will have 3-4 to the flop which I thought was exactly the number we don't want as it's somewhere between a pair holding up and getting enough value for the set. Also I doubt with those 2 limpers that we have much folding equity if an Ace or King flops.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

Thanks,
D5

[/ QUOTE ]

With another vote for preflop raise I just wanted to re-ask this.

Thanks!
D5