TPMK in BB, checked thru on turn, now what?

[thesharpie]

SB bets some marginal stuff and usually likes to reraise when raised.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero ???

I think the flop is standard, or do I need to bet out here? What do I do on the turn?

[PokerMatt]

I'll start off by saying that these kinds of hands give me trouble as well, so maybe we'll both learn something from this /images/graemlins/smile.gif. That being said, I probably would have played the flop the same way. You don't have good position so any raise behind you would put you in a tough spot (especially if any of them limped in with 88 or 22, leaving you with 2 outs).

In this situation, everyone just checked the flop so you may very well have the best hand. Since the SB bets some marginal stuff he may have gotten a pair of 4's on the turn (or had a pair of 8's on the flop), so I'm thinking a raise would be good here. Calling this hand would be a bad move IMO because you're giving flush draws the odds to call, whereas a raise would better protect your hand.

Did you have any reads of note on the other players?

[thesharpie]

Nothing really sticks out on reads of the other players except they all were mostly loose passive.

[xenthebrain]

raise the turn, kick others out and try to get HU with agressive SB

[deepsquat]

bet the flop here, u have top pair. If your read on SB is correct he wont have a king so raise it.

[martinimagic]

I definitely bet the flop here. This is not a bad hand. I would bet/raise on the turn and fold to a reraise. Call a bet on the river if lead into or bet if given the opportunity.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
raise the turn, kick others out and try to get HU with agressive SB

[/ QUOTE ]

echo, echo....

he could just be on a flush draw too.

[dozer]

I think the flop is fine, It's good to see the action after you, so you know wether to fold or not.

On the turn I would just call, I think raising won't do any good here. The players yet to act probably don't have much of a hand or draw, and if some one picked up a flush draw they are going to call anyway. Since the SB bets with junk , I would let him continue betting.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
bet the flop here, u have top pair. If your read on SB is correct he wont have a king so raise it.

[/ QUOTE ]

really? you're OOP with a full field behind you. if the table is uber-passive, a king with a better kicker is letting you lead and calling all the way down.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop is fine, It's good to see the action after you, so you know wether to fold or not.

On the turn I would just call, I think raising won't do any good here. The players yet to act probably don't have much of a hand or draw, and if some one picked up a flush draw they are going to call anyway. Since the SB bets with junk , I would let him continue betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

(for some reason i like quoting people a lot today /images/graemlins/crazy.gif ) i never see this line of thinking, though i'm working on it. it would be tough for me to simply call this because i've had rags suck out on me on the river that wouldn't have had i simply been more aggressive earlier.

[dozer]

I'm surprised people suggested to raise the turn, the pot is small, there is no need to defend it by playing aggressively. In a pot this small I would want to encourage players to call behind me with second pair. Anyone disagree??

[KingOtter]

I would have bet the flop, called a raise, and checked the turn. Maybe, perhaps, fold the river un-improved depending on the turn action.

On the flop you have top pair. This is a made hand. You need to put the money in while you have the best of it. A bet out on the flop is a value bet. The board is scattered, with no flush or straight draw on it. There won't be anybody drawing.

Also betting on the flop may cause the Ax people to fold, clearing up some overcards. It will also cause many suited connectors to fold. I don't really expect anyone with an 8, or a 2 to fold at .5/1 (or at 1/2 that I've seen).

If someone does raise on the flop, it pretty much can only be a king, a set, or someone who doesn't believe you have a King. Since your kicker is pretty weak I would now believe I'm behind if it was raised. If raised, I'd call and fold the turn UI (as long as it wasn't an aggro happy LAG doing the raising).

By checking on the flop you let someone have a free card to make a draw. This is bad.

Then I'd check/call on the turn.

The way you played it though, yes I'd raise it when SB bet out. You don't know he's got a K, and making it 2 big bets to everyone will fold everyone who hasn't got a hand.

KO

[@bsolute_luck]

see my previous posting on hating getting suck out on, plus i just like winning hands /images/graemlins/grin.gif ....but you're probably right. the question then: if someone reraises behind you, are you staying in the hand?

[dozer]

[ QUOTE ]
see my previous posting on hating getting suck out on, plus i just like winning hands /images/graemlins/grin.gif ....but you're probably right. the question then: if someone reraises behind you, are you staying in the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is the pot only has 4 BB in it, so if you raise you are putting in 2 BB. I save my aggressive plays for big pots, and play small pots more passively. By raising you are putting in too much money to win too little. I'm not too sure what I would do if someone raises behind me, it depends on how many people have already called. If the pot becomes huge because of a raise behind me, I might have to force myself to call down.(also it depends who the raiser is, if they are passive or agressive..etc)

[sungod]

Bet the flop. Even if the pot is so small on the turn I'd probably call. Folding is out of the question imo. After how the flop went SB could be betting with anything.

[fl0w]

Reraise! Pushes people out of the pot with draws, you may got him beat, if you're lucky everyone folds and you'll get a free card on turn.

[RaiNz]

I bet the flop here.
The way you played it I would raise the turn.

[crownjules]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing is the pot only has 4 BB in it, so if you raise you are putting in 2 BB. I save my aggressive plays for big pots, and play small pots more passively. By raising you are putting in too much money to win too little. I'm not too sure what I would do if someone raises behind me, it depends on how many people have already called. If the pot becomes huge because of a raise behind me, I might have to force myself to call down.(also it depends who the raiser is, if they are passive or agressive..etc)

[/ QUOTE ]

It's alright to fold out in a small pot when you don't have much of a hand. In this situation, Hero is in a small pot with a lot of players and, as far as he knows at the moment, the probable best hand. Unless this table was super passive, it is likely someone would have bet the King on the flop.

[ErrantNight]

raise

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
SB bets some marginal stuff and usually likes to reraise when raised.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero ???

I think the flop is standard, or do I need to bet out here? What do I do on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the flop.

Since you didn't, raise the turn.

[McGahee]

Bet the flop. Any resistance from there and I go into check/call mode. I'm surprised that so many people like raising the turn. Calling down out of position with a hand you're playing involuntarily because of the BB doesn't make you a "calling station". Plus, it's a lot of fun when you spike your 2 pair on the river and Villian labels you as a fish.

[Mister Z]

Were you going for a C/R on the flop? I bet out the flop and lead the turn... as you played it I would raise the turn and pray not to get reraised.

[thesharpie]

Rest of the hand and results.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 19.29 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has 2s 4d (two pair, fours and twos).
UTG+1 has Kc 8c (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 19.29 BB. </font>

I agree I should've bet the flop. I usually check top pair marginal kicker in this spot when the board is drawish and there are many overcards that can cripple my hand, need to learn to tell the difference.

Once SB 3 bets I think I have to at least see the next card as he probably has some ragged 2 pair, but he could have worse than me so I'd probably call the river. Once UTG+1, a loose passive wakes up on the turn I call getting about 15-1 hoping I have 3 outs.

Anything wrong with the turn and river play?