This is the end

[shawn_p]

Please try to follow this logic.

Card dealers are a part of the service industry.

Waiters, waitresses, doormen, valet, chauffeurs, pizza delivery men, bartenders, etc…… are all part of the service industry.

Each occupation requires approximately the same level of job skills, experience, intelligence, and competency.

Waiters, waitresses, doormen, valet, cab driver, pizza delivery men, bartenders, etc…… who are all part of the service industry receive a nominal wage and are encouraged to do and exceptional job through the custom of gratuities offered by patrons.

The same applies for card dealers.

There is a customary standard gratuity for those in the food service industry normally paid at a rate of 15%-20% of the total tab or check.

There is a customary standard gratuity for those in the “patron service” industry such as: doormen, valet, cab driver, bartenders, and I argue that card dealers fit into this category of the “service industry”. A dollar is an accepted and adequate gratuity for services rendered.

A doorman open the door to your hotel and offers you assistance with you luggage/bags. This action warrants a gratuity of the socially accepted norm of a dollar.

A valet parks your car for you and has it ready for you at the end of a show. This action warrants a gratuity of the socially accepted norm of a dollar.

A cab driver picks you up at the airport and takes you to your hotel. This action warrants a gratuity of the socially accepted norm of a dollar.

A bartender serves you a drink. This action warrants a gratuity of the socially accepted norm of a dollar.

A poker dealer deals you a winning hand. This action warrants a gratuity of the socially accepted norm of a dollar.

The frequency of gratuity is directly related to the quantity of gratuity.

The amount of gratuity is directly related quality of service based on: skill, accuracy, courtesy, friendliness, etc.

A card dealer happens to deal a “bad beat jackpot” hand and a patron wins a substantial amount of money. This certain card dealer who is a part of this sector of the “patron service” industry believes that he is entitled to more than his/her customary dollar gratuity, although his “customary gratuity” is extended based upon his skill, accuracy, and attitude while dealing cards.

No extra skill was involved in dealing this particular hand.

Waiters, waitresses, doormen, valet, cab drivers, pizza delivery men, bartenders, etc…… don’t have bad beat jackpots, yet they work equally as hard at a similar occupation with similar demands.1

Why should card dealers periodically benefit substantially from the luck of patrons who hit a bad beat and receive more than their fair share?
What substantial extra skill (which would merit substantially greater gratuity)_was involved when dealing that particular hand?

[juanez]

More of this? And you post it in B&M, NVG and OOT?

Let it go man, let it go.... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Tacjedi]

I wouldn’t tip a dealer a substantially larger amount if I won a bad beat jackpot, just a little bit larger. However the dealer’s skill has as little to do with you winning a jackpot as does your skill. If skill is the only reason one should benefit from winning a bad beat jackpot then the fact that you didn’t have enough skill to not play a losing hand then you really shouldn’t get the jackpot either.

It seems that some of you forget that poker dealers are people too. Poker is a social game, and the dealer is part of that social element as well. I see the same dealers day in and day out. Anytime you spend hours upon hours with some of the same people you really should start to look at them as acquaintances if not friends. I do not over tip the dealers. I only send them a dollar or two if I win a pot, but I am always polite and thank them. I am not the jerk that throws the toke at them or bitches that my pot was too small to be giving them tip, and it is for this that they treat me kindly as well. If I encounter a dealer outside of the casino they always say hi. They offer to buy me drinks. It doesn’t hurt to have friends.

If you guys only care about hourly rates and +EV then lock yourselves up in a dark room somewhere and play on the internet. That way you can avoid having a soul, and the horror of interacting with people in a positive way.

[Frequitude]

You're a douche.

If I won, I'm pretty sure I'd push the dealer my stack (3/6 mind you) and toss the floorman & lovely cage ladies a couple blacks.

Then I'd go hit up the special men-only "spa" that sits right next door to my cas.

[jordanx]

Yes, what a strange and illogical society we live in.

You usually tip a cabby or a valet a couple of bucks though, but regardless, if you don't want to tip, you don't have to.

We didn't design our culture to have tips pay salaries of service industry employees, it evolved that way. It might not make sense, but here is the rule of thumb:

If you don't tip an adequate amount, you are a dick. Okay, so that is the penalty for undertipping in our society, being a dick.

It makes no sense to complain about tipping or try and change the system or to make sense of the system, you either live within it or you go against it and accept the consequences (aquiring the dick label).

Hell, you might even be able to mitigate the penalty by being extra nice, but probably not by much, you will be a friendly dick, which is likely better than a belligerent dick in perception.

In conclusion, our culture has evolved to neccesitate tipping of service people to compensate for smaller salaries (maybe because of Capitalism, who cares). If you undertip or do not tip, you will be labeled a dick and people will treat you accordingly. You can choose to accept this reality and move on with your life, or dwell on it by constantly bitching about it to everyone all the time. Thank you for your time.

[RydenStoompala]

So what? Am I missing something? What does this have to do with you stiffing a cab driver for a lowball douchebag tip on an airport run? Who gives a rat's arse if you tip larger on a bad beat jackpot? Some people (like me) would probably spread it around a little more but there are others (you) who feel that people in the service industry should know their place. Good on you. Now go hit your gardner with a rake. I just saw him drinking out of the hose without permission.

Oh...don't ever confuse tightass idiocy with logic. Many of the readers of this forum know the difference.

[Photoc]

Didn't this get posted like 3 zillion times already by the rest of the cheapskates on the board? Let it drop. Why do you trolls continue to rant and rave about dealers. DONT [censored] PLAY if its that bad and is eating into your income. [censored], it eats into our income to deal with cheap 2/4 World poker tour wannabes every day of the weak. You dont see every dealer coming on here and crying about not making enough. Why? Because we're not whiny little bitches like some of the people on here.

[Chipr777]

NIT

[The_Tracker]

You stiff.

Being a dealer, it so refreshing to hear comments from players like yourself.

It doesn't matter if it's poker, or the pit games, a dealers tips are based on the winnings. If a poker player wins a larger than normal pot, he will usually throw a extra check or two. Conversly, if a player hits for 40 to 1 on the tables as opposed to even money, he will certainly tip more. You are tipping for the money being pushed to you, not the way the dealer pitched your cards to you or lined up the flop.

It is common freaking sense a dealer would expect more from you with a jackpot you dirty fleabag stiff.

Don't come to my joint with your cheap ass.

[ErrantNight]

why should waiters get tipped more when they wait on a wealthy businessman? or hot waitresses get tipped more than fat, ugly ones?

god life is unfair. it sure sucks to be forced to tip out a little extra when i'm raking thousands and thousands of unexpected money.

[steamboatin]

The Bad Beat at Caesar's In was up over $90k yesterday. You deal that to me and I'll hook you up.

Isn't 3% typical for a tourney win?

[mrkilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Good on you. Now go hit your gardner with a rake. I just saw him drinking out of the hose without permission.

[/ QUOTE ]
BAHAHAHA!! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Holy cow you almost had me there until the end.

Tip $1 after you win a jackpot and you'll not only be the most hated person in the cardroom (by both the staff AND the other players) but you'll also be the second biggest jerk in the universe. Jackpots are so incredibly infrequent, what do you think, that dealers get huge tips for jackpots on a daily basis? Just share some of the good fortune and quit trying to rationalize being a friggin' stiff.

Sheesh, what is it on this forum lately, everyone wants to not only stiff and feel good about themselves, but they want approval from the forum members at the same time.

al

[bholdr]

i see your logic, it makes sense- but it is still cheap!

just because there's no good reason to tip more that 1$ (i believe there is, but we'll ignore that for now) doesn't mean that you SHOULD tip only 1$.


the players at the cardroom i go to and the dealers all aggree that a three% tip on a jackpot is sufficient-- and only from the person that got beaten and thus the big share of the jackpot. they're happy wth 5-10$ from the rest of the table.

now, my reasons that one SHOULD leave a large tip:

A: it does no good to be known as a cheapskate at a place you like to hang out.

B: dealing with the jackpot takes time from the game and ruins the dealer's hourly rate

C: if the dealer had been dealing slower, you may not have gotten to the hand in which the jackpot was dealt- by putting a lot of hands in play, the dealer has increses the chances of you hitting.

D: you are an ass if you don't.

[toots]

So who's the biggest jerk in the universe?

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
So who's the biggest jerk in the universe?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the question I was going to ask /images/graemlins/grin.gif

~ Rick

[Al_Capone_Junior]

is of course ed miller, because during the last 2+2=Super-Magoo game at the mirage, his jack high flush beat my ten high flush.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

al

[toots]

Is there any Super-Magoo jackpot for when that happens?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Yeah, ed got the main pot and I got the side pot of $0.

BTW Ed had JACK-RAG SOOTED IN MIDDLE POSITION. What a JERK. At least mine was T9s in the BB!

al

p.s. I will have my revenge!

[Siegmund]

[ QUOTE ]

There is a customary standard gratuity for those in the food service industry normally paid at a rate of 15%-20% of the total tab or check.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can remember when it was 10-15%. (And it has always seemed that this was much, much, much too high for expensive meals - but yes, it is the norm.)

[ QUOTE ]

There is a customary standard gratuity for those in the “patron service” industry such as: doormen, valet, cab driver, bartenders, and I argue that card dealers fit into this category of the “service industry”. A dollar is an accepted and adequate gratuity for services rendered.


[/ QUOTE ]

Here is gets sticky. What is a meaningful "service"? Opening the door to my hotel? A quaint little part of the hotel's faux-19th-century decor. It is actually be more work for me to set my bag down, get my wallet out of my pocket, and take a dollar out of it, than it would be to open the door myself.

"Free" valet parking when there is self-service parking available, sure, I will tip here, this is a nice extra they didn't have to give me. But many places with valet parking are charging for it anyway (no tip, they've already been overpaid for it) or giving me nowhere else to park (no tip, if you didnt park my car for me you wouldn't get my business at all.)

Similarly, if I arrive at the airport prepared to take a cab to my hotel, and find there's a shuttle, I am happy to tip. If I *selected* a hotel *because* it advertised a free shuttle, I expect to receive what was advertised.

[ QUOTE ]

A cab driver picks you up at the airport and takes you to your hotel. This action warrants a gratuity of the socially accepted norm of a dollar.


[/ QUOTE ]

I actually have driven a cab. The standard tip, for better or worse, was rounding up the number on the meter to the whole dollar. If I got more than that, it was because I helped someone with her bags to the door of her apartment and not just to the curb. But tips were a negligible part of my income - as much in a day as a poker dealer makes in one down.

I mention this to point out the cab drivers are absolutely positively NOT in the "relying on tips for their living wage" category like waitresses are - maybe the rest of the people you listed belong in the category, maybe not.

[ QUOTE ]

The amount of gratuity is directly related quality of service based on: skill, accuracy, courtesy, friendliness, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Except you just listed a bunch of things where the gratuity was a flat one dollar, except for restaurants.
[ QUOTE ]

Waiters, waitresses, doormen, valet, cab drivers, pizza delivery men, bartenders, etc…… don’t have bad beat jackpots, yet they work equally as hard at a similar occupation with similar demands.1


[/ QUOTE ]

We hit jackpots of other kinds (in the cab business, for instance, the biggest jackpot happens when a flight gets cancelled and you drive 300 miles with the meter on, with 4 people aboard who don't want to wait 6 hours for the next flight.) Things that haven't anything to do with the quality of service we gave, nothing except being in the right place at the right time, but can show a big profit.

[ QUOTE ]
What substantial extra skill...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, if only gratuities had ANYTHING to do with skill, and not just with social norms. Once they become expected, they cease to be a meaningful way of rewarding a job well done. (If I got handed a $5 tip, my reaction was not "I guess it paid off to treat that guy well" .. it is "gee, I treated him the same as I treat all my customers, but he was drunk.")

Our only alternative is to punish a job poorly done by withholding them - which does get the message across, but means the messenger gets tarred for being honest about his disappointment.

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
Then I'd go hit up the special men-only "spa" that sits right next door to my cas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im hoping and praying your local casino isnt located in San Francisco.

[Frequitude]

hahaha, so zaxx is smart AND witty. Thank god I'm in Vienna. I think the same guy owns both buildings...smart man.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
...you dirty fleabag stiff. Don't come to my joint with your cheap ass.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Tracker,

I realize you probably wrote this while you were off duty, and this board is not your place of employment, but even so, do you think it's appropriate to write public statements of this nature talk directed at one of your potential customers and for many of your actual or potential customers to read?

Do you consider players "your" customers or do you consider them only the customers of the casino you work at?

What do you think your employer would be likely to think about your post? Particularly the parts calling a player names and suggesting they don't come to the casino you work at? Would they support your position?

Do you feel proud of the the stance you've taken and the way you've expressed it, as a professional dealer and as a person?

[The_Tracker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...you dirty fleabag stiff. Don't come to my joint with your cheap ass.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Tracker,

I realize you probably wrote this while you were off duty, and this board is not your place of employment, but even so, do you think it's appropriate to write public statements of this nature talk directed at one of your potential customers and for many of your actual or potential customers to read?

Do you consider players "your" customers or do you consider them only the customers of the casino you work at?

What do you think your employer would be likely to think about your post? Particularly the parts calling a player names and suggesting they don't come to the casino you work at? Would they support your position?

Do you feel proud of the the stance you've taken and the way you've expressed it, as a professional dealer and as a person?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

First, I am not at work and can make any comment I chose on this open board. I have not mentioned where I work, nor will I, and am in no way representing my place of employment sitting here in front of my computer in my home. I am not obligated by my employer to treat all people I encouter on a daily basis as my customer just because they are a poker player.

Secondly, management at most casinos view stiffs in much the same light as I did. I have daily conversations with management about the stiff on one particular game, or the george on another. Casinos want the casual player. The come to Vegas, have fun, lose their money, tip accordingly, and go home. The cheap stiffs that try grinding out a profit and asking for comps every hour are not the prefered player.

Lastly, your post shows you know nothing about Vegas, tokes, and how the show is run out here. This stance is taken by every dealer in the business. It's about making tokes. Period.

So the next time you are playing your game, and you pull a huge pot, or win hand after hand of BJ, and don't toss the dealer one single chip, just remember, that everyone from the dealer, to the pit boss, to the other players are sitting there thinking to themselves, "what a stiff".

<tap, tap> Thank you very much sir.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
...your post shows you know nothing about Vegas, tokes, and how the show is run out here. This stance is taken by every dealer in the business. It's about making tokes. Period.
So the next time you...pull a huge pot or win hand after hand of BJ and don't toss the dealer a single chip, just remember that everyone from the dealer to the pit boss to the other players are sitting there thinking, "what a stiff".

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi T,
You correctly surmised that I know little about Vegas. In fact, I've never even seen a casino in my whole life besides in pictures. However, I have been to restaurants and used cabs and gotten services from other service industry companies and workers. I've also worked as waiter, a cab driver and limo driver amongst other jobs. I am now a service business owner and employee where we get tipped occasionally, although we don't rely on them primarily. My posted thoughts above were based on these general life and business experiences, not specifically those in a casino.

I can say that if I ever caught one of my employees even hinting about one of my customers or potential customers in the manner you did, I would counsel them. Repeated incidents would lead to termination. That's partly why I wondered how management and owners at the casino you worked at would view your comments.

I have read some comments in some other threads from other dealers similarly insulting customers such as you did. You are obviously not alone. I would be pleased to hear their responses to any of the questions I posted above also.

Of course, most or all of these comments are being made anonymously. That's why I asked if you are proud of your comments? Would you or any of the other dealers discussing customer tipping habits be proud to tell us which casino they worked for?

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, most or all of these comments are being made anonymously. That's why I asked if you are proud of your comments? Would you or any of the other dealers discussing customer tipping habits be proud to tell us which casino they worked for?


[/ QUOTE ]
Start searching posts. Most of the dealers have mentioned at least a few times as to where they work. I just dont feel doing the legwork for you, lol.

[Chipr777]

Todd Desnoyers, Day Shift Floor Supervisor-Dealer. Horseshoe Tunica (800) 303-7463. I'm off on Thursdays and Fridays.

[terrapin314]

I have to agree with the waitress tipping comment. At a really nice meal where I live, my standard 20% tip has been 30 bucks. But, at Bob Evans or wherever on lunch, 20% might only be 2 or 3 bucks. Was my service that much greater or did the staff work that much harder? No way.

My personal standard - a buck or two per pot in 4/8 and maybe 3 if the dealer is outstanding. If he is a prick, then I might not tip. Tipped ten bucks for a high hand bonus at Mandalay a few weeks ago that was a couple hundred bucks. I am not playing for a living, just for fun and if you so poor that you cannot tip a working man - then you shouldn't be playing. Yes, the tips add up - but I am sure it is a bad job.