Two of my problems

[Fredrik]

1) I don't raise enough pre-flop. I think this is SSHE fault. I'm seeing way too many draws/mediocre hands to the showdown thanks to the raise, making me reluctant to be the one raising.

2) I check/call HU on the river. I know I shouldn't do it. I can't see one single reason why I should. EVER. Still I do it.

Anyone got any tips on how to get rid of these flaws? Put a post-it on the monitor? Grow smarter?

[adsman]

Just off the top of my head, I can see a great reason to check call the river. Induce a bluff.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
1) I don't raise enough pre-flop. I think this is SSHE fault. I'm seeing way too many draws/mediocre hands to the showdown thanks to the raise, making me reluctant to be the one raising.

2) I check/call HU on the river. I know I shouldn't do it. I can't see one single reason why I should. EVER. Still I do it.

Anyone got any tips on how to get rid of these flaws? Put a post-it on the monitor? Grow smarter?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not raising enough preflop is not SSH's fault. It's your fault for not being able to dump a hand once you've been shown you're behind. I'm not a SSH buff, but it sounds like you've got a leak, you know it's a leak, and you choose to make something else at fault so that you feel better about it. Don't do this. Realise it's your fault and WORK on it.

value betting doesn't come easy for some people. Become an active part of this forum. Keep playing. Keep reading. You will, without a doubt, improve.

edited for mild retardation

[the_rookie]

1) You mean people are calling raises with mediocore hands and drawing out on you? This is what you want...makes you money in the long run.

2) Try putting your opponents on a range of hands and then gauge by the texture of the board whether they most likley hit their draw and make the best play.

[aK13]

SSH emphasizes preflop play as much as postflop play (the much more difficult of the two). You've got the first part down, but if you can't get away from hands that you've raised with preflop, you obviously have a problem with postflop play. You should be able to judge when laying down a marginal or drawing hand is the correct play. Having said that, this doesn't mean you should "make big laydowns", expecting everybody to be holding a monster against you.

[PokerMatt]

1) It seems like you're afraid of people drawing out on you. Don't worry about it! You may occasionally lose to weak draws like this, but these same people will be paying you off on your big draws far more often.

2) There are certain situations that a check-call is the correct play when you are almost certain you are beaten. However, like jaxUp said, value betting doesn't come easily to everyone. The only advice I can give you on this is from nike: Just do it! Remember that while this may occasionally lose you a bet or 2, you will win more (and bigger) pots this way.

[Shillx]

I don't raise enough pre-flop. I think this is SSHE fault.

Yeah reading SSH was my biggest problem as well. I was a huge winner until I read it and then I hit a big downswing the week after for some reason. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Brad

[MooFrog]

Play some cheap NL SnGs. I blew about $20 playing $1 and $2 tournaments, and spent a couple days reading through the SnG board. You get tons of hands, and it's a lot of fun. I found it really improved my limit play, since you retain some of the "All in or fold" mentality, which really has increased my aggressiveness as well as my willingness to bet on the river. Basically, if I'm in a hand I'm raising postflop. For draws, I'm looking a lot more at the odds, and it really helps to think that I would never chase it in a tournament. Combined with my desire to chase everything, and check/call till I get something good, I think it really has improved my postflop game.

For preflop raises, I have the loose limit strategy pdf from WLLH in front of me all the time for marginal calls (not sure of link, got it from these forums though). A lot of the time I'm finding that it prevents me from going on tilt (when I might be thinking about raising a hand that's so terrible it's not even considered). I also like looking at what it recommends to raise and call with, and the positions, and compare it to what I would be planning to do with the hand I have.

For chasing draws, if I'm not one card away on the flop and have no made hands or overcards, I'll get rid of it for any bet. May bet out, but will never call. With overcards or a middle pair, I'll probably bet out. Will take a general glance at the odds and make sure they aren't gigantic in either direction, but I'm still trying to get the hang of specific odds based play.

[MooFrog]

Ooops, I meant the Miller book (SSHE), not WLLH. I always do that /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[stlip]

[ QUOTE ]
Play some cheap NL SnGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Learning NL really helped my ring game, too. It makes you realize just how valuable flopping a top pair or holding an overcard pair is compared to someone on a draw. You're the favorite, and by a clear enough margin that you want to bet all you can, whether the game is limit or NL.

[nh5150]

i cant understand why you say you blame SSH for you not raising enough pre flop. compared to other books ive read i would say it has taught me to be more agg all round. i raise more now pre flop than ever. folding as well though, on the flop if i dont see good reasons to carry on. as for the river i used to check/call a lot too. i find myself value betting now even when im not too sure. its surprising to me what some people are calling down with. i am by no means an expert on this, its my first reply on this forum /images/graemlins/blush.gif maybe you need to study SSH again.

[Fredrik]

I don't really blame SSH. I love the book. Reading selected chapters now after reading it twice (sadly, I got the book without having played much LHE). But if you'd comprise this book into one single sentence; I guess it would be 'never fold raised pots'.

Of course, there's much more to a raised pot than that, but if there is a point Miller tries to make, it's that players fold way too many raised pots just because of some random bet.

Of course, he is totally correct. I've folded my fair share of middle pocket pairs when one overcard hit the flop and hit my set on the turn.
But it also makes it very hard to fold AK on a scattered board even when there's no improvement on the river.

I know; play better post-flop and raise more pre-flop. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

As for the #2, well, it'll come.

Let me take a moment to thank everyone who took the time to reply. This thread was a 'Hi, my name is Fredrik and I have leaks' kind of thing. To deal with these problems I guess I had to publicity state them. Now when they're in the open, I can squash them. Sorry for making my problems yours.

I just got HOH (I like to play NL, but now it's two weeks of bonus whoring for me) and TOP, but I think I'm going to pick up POP as soon as possible. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for your time.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Play some cheap NL SnGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Learning NL really helped my ring game, too. It makes you realize just how valuable flopping a top pair or holding an overcard pair is compared to someone on a draw. You're the favorite, and by a clear enough margin that you want to bet all you can, whether the game is limit or NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know this is off-topic a tab, but i don't understand this advice. NL and Limit are way different and SnGs are different than ring games. i wouldn't suggest this to anyone learning micro-limit ring games ever.

i'm trying to understand the OP problems really. sure the value bet may be a problem, but 1) it is common 2) you'll learn 3) i wouldn't put it as a MAJOR leak unless you're taking bad hands too far, but then the leak isn't your river play, but earlier play.

as far as raising preflop, i don't know how many hands you have played or how long you have been playing, but just stick to the SSH tight requirements and learn to loosen up from there. don't get stuck thinking "oh i have to raise more because that's what i'm supposed to do with this hand or that".

learn to understand WHY you raise first in or based on table conditions to limp with suited connectors or not. since you've read SSH, i'd suggest Theory of Poker. that'll help with the WHY a lot, IMHO. what i've learned (contrary to NL SnGs) is how valuable suited connectors are.

That is the beauty of micro-limit: your suited connectors have value because so many people are playing so many bad hands and not paying attention. In NL, you don't have odds to have your draws come in.

[stlip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Play some cheap NL SnGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Learning NL really helped my ring game, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know this is off-topic a tab, but i don't understand this advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because every hand in an NL SnG can be life or death, certain aspects of the game are magnified. In a limit game it can take much longer for some subtle advantages of proper play to manifest themselves. It helped me with my aggression, one of the OPs stated problems. Also, by playing NL, I came back to the ring games having learned to respect even more the importance of position. As a result I have cut my VIP in full ring games from UTG and UTG+1 by several percent. I used to be about 15 and 18 percent respectively in those seats (22-23 overall in $1/2) now I'm 11 and 15 -- and I may look to push it down even a bit further.