Help Me, I'm a DONK [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

mtdoak

04-18-2005, 10:59 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, Hero calls, 5 folds, SB raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (11.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

I feel like this raise is just chip bleeding. I obviously not capping.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

MoreWineII

04-18-2005, 11:01 PM

I dunno, after villian's turn 3-bet and once that board pairs up, I might just call the river. How do my panties look?

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:01 PM

Does anyone here fold the flop? 'Cuz I think it'd be a pretty good plan.

After the turn action, I'd call his river bet.

Harv72b

04-18-2005, 11:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone here fold the flop? 'Cuz I think it'd be a pretty good plan.

After the turn action, I'd call his river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the turn action provides more than enough supporting evidence for the flop call. It's the preflop limp that I'm not a big fan of.

As far as the river goes, it's easy to say in hindsight that you should've just called the bet. But if you'd just called & he flipped over AK, we'd all be wondering why you didn't raise the river. I dunno...it's probably better to just call in this situation, especially given that you can't fold to a 3-bet.

mtdoak

04-18-2005, 11:10 PM

I wan intending to raise the turn if a spade or king fell (or a queen obviously)

Evan

04-18-2005, 11:11 PM

I'm with the sad, strangely-colored bear.

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wan intending to raise the turn if a spade or king fell (or a queen obviously)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like raising a spade unless you really think there's significant folding equity on it, and I doubt there is. I don't mind raising a King but you pretty much have to fold to a 3-bet.

All that said, you've got around 5 outs here. You're getting 6:1 needing 8.2:1. The only hand you're in really good shape against is TT.

Rob

MoreWineII

04-18-2005, 11:13 PM

Does the typical 3/6 player 3-bet that turn with AK? Not in my experience.

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with the sad, strangely-colored bear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that CDC has changed his avatar this avatar is no longer cool. I need a new one. Go find me one.

Rob

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone here fold the flop? 'Cuz I think it'd be a pretty good plan.

After the turn action, I'd call his river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the turn action provides more than enough supporting evidence for the flop call. It's the preflop limp that I'm not a big fan of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you usually think you're getting this much action when you turn broadway?

When you couple that with his plan to raise a King or a /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the turn, I think the call is pretty bad. He's going to need to get two bets on the turn and one on the river and never get drawn out on to justify it.

Rob

MoreWineII

04-18-2005, 11:15 PM

http://sati.home.comcast.net/Catforholly85.jpg

Harv72b

04-18-2005, 11:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does the typical 3/6 player 3-bet that turn with AK? Not in my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not the typical one, but I see it often enough to consider it a possibility. Either way, like I said...Hero can't fold to a river 3-bet, so it probably isn't wise to raise the river.

MoreWineII

04-18-2005, 11:16 PM

http://www.monkiesareawful.com/pics/monkeyuck2.gif

tytygoodnuts

04-18-2005, 11:17 PM

First off, do you have a read on the opponent? This would help people analyse your play.

Calling the flop is probably the worst choice of your three options. I extremely dislike this this call. If you think you have pot odds to call here (which I don't think you have) you should be raising for a free card and to take control of the hand. But as I said, I don't think this hand is even worth continuing. Every other street besides the flop looks good though.

Evan

04-18-2005, 11:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I need a new one. Go find me one.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just made this for you....

http://i5.nyu.edu/~ess269/entity_avatar.JPG

Harv72b

04-18-2005, 11:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you usually think you're getting this much action when you turn broadway?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're going to get 3-bet on the turn pretty often. Even if he wouldn't with AK, he would with AQ, AA, QQ, and JJ...possibly with AJ as well, although I'd throw that into the same probability as AK. And since no read was provided, you have to throw in the donk factor (that he might have PFR'd some crappy A with the intention of capping every street if he catches TP). If villian sucks, you're likely to get a 3-bet out of him. If villian's good, you're likely to get a 3-bet if he has one of the hands mentioned, because who really expects a KT to limp from EP?

I hadn't seen the plan to raise a spade or K when I replied. I don't like that plan, barring a read on the villian that he would fold something like KK or QQ UI to a turn raise.

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're going to get 3-bet on the turn pretty often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'll only get 3-bet by hands that are drawing to 10 outs against you the majority of the time. Sometimes you'll get 3-bet by 4-outers but not often. I think you'll get called down by hands that have 3 outs against you to a chop (which will be frequent).

So when you get 5BB's (4 on turn, 1 on river), you'll lose 21.7% of the time on the river. You'll chop around 6% of the time and you'll lose to a hand that didn't give you much turn action 9% of the time.

I don't know if it's worth it given all of that, but it's probably closer than I originally gave it credit for. Adding in the spewing bluff-raises he had planned (the /images/graemlins/spade.gif plan especially sucks), I think it's a -EV call.

Rob

PokerProdigy

04-18-2005, 11:37 PM

Flop call is a bad play in a 6 SB pot that is heads-up IMO. But the rest was well played.

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop call is a bad play in a 6 SB pot that is heads-up IMO. But the rest was well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think the river raise is any good.

PokerBob

04-18-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, Hero calls, 5 folds, SB raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (11.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

I feel like this raise is just chip bleeding. I obviously not capping.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

If I am going to continue in this hand, I think I am raising the flop, with that being the last bet I put in unless I catch a Q. If he has an A, I think he will attempt to c/r me on the turn, which I will check behind if I miss. Just calling is awful IMO.

PokerProdigy

04-18-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone here fold the flop? 'Cuz I think it'd be a pretty good plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

PokerProdigy

04-18-2005, 11:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop call is a bad play in a 6 SB pot that is heads-up IMO. But the rest was well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think the river raise is any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I have given it some thought and I agree.

PokerBob

04-18-2005, 11:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop call is a bad play in a 6 SB pot that is heads-up IMO. But the rest was well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think the river raise is any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Hero has all but said "I have a monster" with his turn cap, and SB has said "I don't give a [censored]" by leading the river. I'm kinda surpirsed he dind't go for the c/r on the river.

Harv72b

04-18-2005, 11:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you'll only get 3-bet by hands that are drawing to 10 outs against you the majority of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right; I undervalued the redraws Hero would be up against. FWIW, I still like the flop call, as there's a decent percentage of the time when SB is autobetting an underpair, and would give Hero a free look at the river should he miss on the turn.

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I need a new one. Go find me one.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just made this for you....

http://i5.nyu.edu/~ess269/entity_avatar.JPG

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this one better.

MoreWineII

04-18-2005, 11:43 PM

wtf, I give you a cat licking it's genetalia and two monkeys [censored] and you choose...THAT?!?!

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wtf, I give you a cat licking it's genetalia and two monkeys [censored] and you choose...THAT?!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see your second avatar; it didn't work. The cat just didn't do anything, though the thought of a pussy licking itself is intriguing.

Rob

MoreWineII

04-18-2005, 11:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wtf, I give you a cat licking it's genetalia and two monkeys [censored] and you choose...THAT?!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see your second avatar; it didn't work.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a damned shame.

http://members.shaw.ca/chrisks/lazer-numskull.gif

Harv72b

04-18-2005, 11:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
http://members.shaw.ca/chrisks/lazer-numskull.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I could watch this for hours.

Evan

04-18-2005, 11:51 PM

I will be crying for the last 10 minutes of my birthday.

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I will be crying for the last 10 minutes of my birthday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your birthday is almost over? That sucks.

Entity

04-18-2005, 11:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I will be crying for the last 10 minutes of my birthday.

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW, I really wish it were easier to see the image.

Link. (http://www.geekfitness.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-75)

Also, I think we have successfully hijacked this thread.

Evan

04-18-2005, 11:58 PM

what
a
fish

http://www.geekfitness.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_yuck.jpg

MoreWineII

04-19-2005, 12:01 AM

...

Evan

04-19-2005, 12:03 AM

It was in the album in Entity's link.

Entity = fish.

MoreWineII

04-19-2005, 12:04 AM

He's been giving me advice all night. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Entity

04-19-2005, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It was in the album in Entity's link.

Entity = fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

How's 10/20, prag?

Entity

04-19-2005, 12:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
...

[/ QUOTE ]

You too can learn how to suck at $3/6 6max. That night remains the worst night I've had in poker. Of course, I start on 5/10 6max this week, so I imagine that'll be changing soon.

Rob

CallMeIshmael

04-19-2005, 12:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If he has an A, I think he will attempt to c/r me on the turn, which I will check behind if I miss. Just calling is awful IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will three bet your ass so quickly with an A its not funny.

Luv2DriveTT

04-19-2005, 01:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone here fold the flop? 'Cuz I think it'd be a pretty good plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOOOOHHHHHHH YYYYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHH...... here comes cool aid!

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

uw_madtown

04-19-2005, 06:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, Hero calls, 5 folds, SB raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (11.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

I feel like this raise is just chip bleeding. I obviously not capping.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold the flop. Somehow 8-bet the turn. Just call the river.

PokerBob

04-19-2005, 06:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he has an A, I think he will attempt to c/r me on the turn, which I will check behind if I miss. Just calling is awful IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will three bet your ass so quickly with an A its not funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. Or you may go for a turn c/r. Or you may have a smaller pair and shut down. I am not suggesting the move isn't without risk, I just think it is better than calling.

DeeJ

04-19-2005, 07:15 AM

Err, how often do you get 3-bet when you raise the turn? Not very often. You don't know this when you face the A-high flop with a gutshot and a backdoor.
I think a flop fold is fine.

MCS

04-19-2005, 08:18 AM

I don't get the flop call. I just don't see the pot being big enough.

Turn is obvious.

Just call the river. You get 3-bet if he did indeed have aces up or a set on the turn, which it sure looks like he did. I don't know what hand he could have that you beat other than AK, and the chance of that would be enough for me to call.