Opening up my VP$IP; Two hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Opening up my VP$IP; Two hands

bonaparte

04-18-2005, 10:56 PM

Villian (CO) posted.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5. CO posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Preflop play is good here right? (trying to open up my VP$IP) 

Flop: (7 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Am I spewing chips here? 

River: (13 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

I'm thinkin what the heck am I up against here? Two pair most likely so should I have bet again?

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4s 4c (three of a kind, fours).
CO has 5d 8s (straight, eight high).
Outcome: CO wins 17 BB. 

Ok an easy one:

I think I definatly had no business calling this, right?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 5 folds, SB calls, Hero calls

Thanks again for the help.

tiltaholic

04-18-2005, 11:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villian (CO) posted.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5. CO posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Preflop play is good here right? (trying to open up my VP$IP) 

Flop: (7 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Am I spewing chips here? 

River: (13 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

I'm thinkin what the heck am I up against here? Two pair most likely so should I have bet again?

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4s 4c (three of a kind, fours).
CO has 5d 8s (straight, eight high).
Outcome: CO wins 17 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

nice hand. well played. lucky him.

and for the other one, yeah, i'd fold w/o a read.

davelin

04-18-2005, 11:00 PM

Hand 1 is a VERY standard call, especially with two posters here.

Hand 2 I usually fold, I'd like at least one more person coming along with me here.

cold_cash

04-18-2005, 11:01 PM

Hand 1 -- Eh. Depending on the opponent I would probably check and call on the river after he caps the turn.

Hand 2 is fine.

Firefly

04-18-2005, 11:03 PM

1st hand is good. Dunno if i'd bet the river..someone will help me on that one. Generally when he caps the turn he has something... so on an unknown i think we can check-call the river.
2nd hand. I'd muck this without a second thought. your going to play a crappy hand OOP with only the SB with you.

milesdyson

04-18-2005, 11:05 PM

He posted in the CO, so that's our only info that he knows something about the game... obviously it could also be a coincidence. Since he's a poster, he can have any two cards. When he caps the river and it's only you against him, I would give him credit for 53 or 85 or a set. You only beat 22, so I'd probably check call the river.

Hand 2 I'd call J9s there, but I'd fold J7s. In other words, it doesn't matter much.

Nfinity

04-18-2005, 11:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop play is good here right? (trying to open up my VP$IP) 

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if your table is SO passive it hurts your soul.

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (5 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Am I spewing chips here? 

[/ QUOTE ]

The Turn seems fine, but when he caps, you should probably be prepared to Check-Call the River UI

[ QUOTE ]

Ok an easy one:

I think I definatly had no business calling this, right?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 5 folds, SB calls, Hero calls

Thanks again for the help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold.

IPSC

04-18-2005, 11:13 PM

I did read the results before I posted, so not only is this a bad playing newb recommendation, but it is tained as well.

Against a maniac I might have called the cap on the turn, checked the river and called a bet.

Against a passive player that raises my turn bet, I'm calling and then check/calling the river.

Nfinity

04-18-2005, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is a VERY standard call, especially with two posters here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I just got better. Thanks Davelin.

Shillx

04-18-2005, 11:24 PM

I've said it about a million times before, but I'll say it again because it is very important...

When you are OOP and both you and the villian really like your hands on the river, DON'T BET unless you are intending to RERAISE.

This is a very basic concept, and when you are on the river against someone who may or may not have a better hand there are 3 ways to play it:

1) Check and call.
2) Check and raise.
3) Lead and 3-bet.

The problem with the lead and call line is that he will only raise you if you are beat. So he will call the river bet with 2-pair and raise you with a straight (win one or lose two). However, when you check to him he will bet all these hands (win one or lose one). This is the definition of a dominated strategy and is something that you need to recognize since it comes up fairly often at the table.

Brad

bonaparte

04-18-2005, 11:38 PM

Most would check call the river. I guess I'm learning something. Split on hand 2 between calls and don't calls. I tend to agree with the don't calls, even though that is not what I did. Glad I posted that one.

Also two questions I should know the answer to but don't want to start a thread on.

What is OOP?

What does 'no content' mean?

Thanks

yellowjack

04-18-2005, 11:43 PM

OOP = out of position, ie. you're UTG and villain is MP2 going heads up, you're OOP

no content = no content in the hand to be discussed, some amusing hand

tiltaholic

04-18-2005, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've said it about a million times before, but I'll say it again because it is very important...

When you are OOP and both you and the villian really like your hands on the river, DON'T BET unless you are intending to RERAISE.

This is a very basic concept, and when you are on the river against someone who may or may not have a better hand there are 3 ways to play it:

1) Check and call.
2) Check and raise.
3) Lead and 3-bet.

The problem with the lead and call line is that he will only raise you if you are beat. So he will call the river bet with 2-pair and raise you with a straight (win one or lose two). However, when you check to him he will bet all these hands (win one or lose one). This is the definition of a dominated strategy and is something that you need to recognize since it comes up fairly often at the table.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks.
i disagree somewhat that he'll only raise if he's beating you. but i see your point and it's a good one.

Aaron W.

04-18-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Preflop play is good here right? (trying to open up my VP$IP) 

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if your table is SO passive it hurts your soul.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limping 44 with a limper in front and a poster behind is a no brainer. Even at an aggressive table, you're still limping in. You're most likely going to see a flop 5-6 handed, and even if it's raised behind you it isn't close to a disater.

Catt

04-19-2005, 12:23 AM

Re Hand 2: There's a Peter_Rus thread that gets referenced a lot around here (recently, too) - I don't have a link handy. In any event, while Peter_Rus is very good post-flop (and so it is an easier call for him), he has shared some very interesting data on the profitability of calling a raise in the BB with any 2 suited so long as it is at least 3 to the flop. His conclusions, based on his play (and a large database), are that calling a raise in the BB even with suited junk is marginally +EV with 3 to the flop and clearly +EV with 4 to the flop.