Lagging it up with the nut flush draw

[MoreWineII]

Ultimate Bet 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Zero reads.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8.70 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (20.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23.70 BB

[Entity]

I would check the flop. I'd probably play the turn the same but going for the checkraise is tempting, depending on your flop play. After he caps I'd check-call the river too.

Rob

[MoreWineII]

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I would check the flop

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How come?

[Entity]

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[ QUOTE ]

I would check the flop

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How come?

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Because I don't really want to drive people out. I'd usually (frequently) checkraise but I might check-call depending on the action.

Rob

[MoreWineII]

So it probably would have gone:

Flop: (8.40 SB) Q, T, K (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, BB calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds...

Isn't it pretty much the same thing? I still have to confront one player with two bets.

[PokerProdigy]

Looks good to me. I also like the check call on the turn, because it seems like CO is NOT afraid of the ace of clubs, and with the BB's position you can trap him for an extra bet (because if you led out and were raised, BB would probably fold).

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
So it probably would have gone:

Flop: (8.40 SB) Q, T, K (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, BB calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds...

Isn't it pretty much the same thing? I still have to confront one player with two bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does it have to go Hero checks...CO bets...Hero raises? Is hero incapable of calling here? Does he think he has a ton of equity, does he want it HU? You've got a 12-outer but I don't think you're winning UI.

Rob

[MoreWineII]

Now I'm really confused. Didn't you say you'd frequently check-raise?

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I'd usually (frequently) checkraise

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You don't think I have enough equity to put several bets in on this flop? I do have one other player sammiched in there too (assuming I check-raised)...

[Entity]

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Now I'm really confused. Didn't you say you'd frequently check-raise?

[ QUOTE ]
I'd usually (frequently) checkraise

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You don't think I have enough equity to put several bets in on this flop? I do have one other player sammiched in there too (assuming I check-raised)...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'll get 3-bet less often when you checkraise than you will get raised if you bet.

I also think that when leading he'll call with hands like J/images/graemlins/club.gifJx which he'd bet if you checked.

I also think that when you bet on a flop like this, UTG+2 will often fold knowing it's likely to get raised behind him. Since CO is expected to bet, though, BB seems to be more likely to call, since he won't expect (as often) to have to call multiple bets.

Rob

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I'm really confused. Didn't you say you'd frequently check-raise?

[ QUOTE ]
I'd usually (frequently) checkraise

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You don't think I have enough equity to put several bets in on this flop? I do have one other player sammiched in there too (assuming I check-raised)...

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The reason I would check-call is if I thought it likely that I could check-raise a friendly card. My equity's good on this flop but not great depending on CO's range of opening hands. I'd checkraise if I thought it would stay 4-way and might if I thought it would stay 3-ways, but I wouldn't checkraise HU.

Rob

[MoreWineII]

Gotcha.