JJ turns nasty [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Womble

04-18-2005, 04:47 PM

One of my first hands at the table

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 (poster) raises, 3 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds

GatorXP

04-18-2005, 04:53 PM

I'd be checking that flop. No one is folding to your flop bet with the good size pot and your probably behind.

Womble

04-18-2005, 05:01 PM

Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

car ramrod

04-18-2005, 05:06 PM

The second example is good for two reasons. It is HU, so yes bet the flop. Also you 3 bet, and he did not cap. I would put him on a smaller pp.

thesharpie

04-18-2005, 05:09 PM

I'd say it flopped nasty.

Aaron W.

04-18-2005, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be checking that flop. No one is folding to your flop bet with the good size pot and your probably behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking with the intent of calling a bet or folding to a bet?

Sykes

04-18-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this hand was played perfectly, and I do the exact same thing. The reason why this hand was played better than the first one is because you're heads-up in position and there is only one overcard on the board. By raising on the flop and betting the turn, you may get a weak-tight player to fold his QQ/KK on the turn.

thesharpie

04-18-2005, 05:11 PM

Check call the flop in the first hand. If you don't think your set outs are enough, you also have the J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I'd call it with just the set outs even.

jrz1972

04-18-2005, 05:12 PM

Check-fold the flop. I'm having a hard time thinking of any pre-flop capping hands that you are beating. (TT? 99?)
Peeling one off isn't too bad, as you might be getting the right odds to draw to your ~2 outer.

Edit: The second hand is perfect.

tijean

04-18-2005, 05:12 PM

This hand is completely different from the first one. It wasn't capped; it's HU; and there's only 1 overcard on the flop. So yeah, raising here is the right thing.

[ QUOTE ]
looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

Womble

04-18-2005, 05:14 PM

Ahhhhhhh, because there were 4 people it is highly likely that an A is out there since they called the capped preflop. The preflop capper likely has me bet and thats not including the others

threadkiller

04-18-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
If he had check-raised the turn (either because he has AKo or much less likely because he had 66-55-44), what would you have done? Call or 3-bet?

Womble

04-18-2005, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
If he had check-raised the turn (either because he has AKo or much less likely because he had 66-55-44), what would you have done? Call or 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you are just making things complicated. I suppose it could happen although the turn is a brick. The check-raise surely indicates something phenominal but AA isnt there (no PF cap) AK is the only possibility.

A checkraise seems too random, suppose I would need a read. Normal/passive = fold. Super crazy maniac = call