Overpair versus Set [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Shorty35

04-18-2005, 03:49 PM

On what street did I go wrong here? Can anyone point to a good link about playing an overpair against a suspected set? (I did suspect it). With the relatively shallow stacks in a SNG, I always find it next to impossible to lay down a hand like this.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB (t2450)
UTG (t2185)
MP (t2090)
Button (t4390)
Hero (t2385)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t30, MP calls t30, Button calls t30, Hero raises to t200, 1 fold, UTG calls t170, MP calls t170, Button calls t170.

Flop: (t830) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets t300, UTG folds, MP folds, Button raises to t750, Hero calls t450.

Turn: (t2330) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t720, Hero calls t720.

River: (t3770) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t750, Hero calls t715 (All-In).

Final Pot: t5235

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ah As (two pair, aces and threes).
Button has 5c 5d (full house, fives full of threes).
Outcome: Button wins t5235.

LeVoodoo

04-18-2005, 03:54 PM

I'm pretty sure I'm losing my whole stack here too. I would probably push when he re-raises me on the flop, but of course that doesnt change the outcome.

TruFloridaGator

04-18-2005, 04:10 PM

This is so hard, of course I am getting broke at any of the levels I play at. However, there's only so much he can have when he calls your raise...even knowing that I don't know how to muck.

LeVoodoo

04-18-2005, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
However, there's only so much he can have when he calls your raise

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is a low buy-in: KK - 99. I wouldn't discount A8 either.
You will not find a better flop when you are holding aces. This one is perfect.

Shorty35

04-18-2005, 04:15 PM

When I saw the flop, I committed (mentally) that I was taking this to the river. Once it became clear to me that he was not going away, I went defensive to hopefully (but unsuccessfully) get to a showdown without committing all my chips

TruFloridaGator

04-18-2005, 04:18 PM

Yeah, I do agree, what level is this? I just meant if this a higher level SNG.
If this $5 or $10, this can be much worse than A8

TruFloridaGator

04-18-2005, 04:18 PM

You didn't even half to think bout it like that. I would have been smiling the whole way to the River if this is a low-buy in.

john_

04-18-2005, 04:24 PM

While this flop isn't necessary bad, I wouldn't call it best. I'd prefer a flop that had one big card like K x x or Q x x rainbow. The way somebody with TPGK will give me nice action as a big dog. Rather than me looking at a raise and bets on every street when the flop was 5 8 3. If he had 99 - KK he'd of played the hand really weird at the low buy in's.

Of course if its a low buy-in tourney he could have anything. So yeah, I probably bust on this hand too.

TruFloridaGator

04-18-2005, 04:29 PM

Yeah, I want a flop like that giving me lots of action. Although it seems like everytime it comes KQx someone had KQ. Maybe it's just me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Shorty35

04-18-2005, 04:35 PM

It was a $30/3. And it was a pretty loose table - so the range I had him on included AK.

To the poster who suggested repopping all in on the flop: By playing a flop like this defensively (when up against resistance)I find that the chips I save when up against a set outweigh the marginal chips I gain with a push reraise on the flop (i.e. the chips that I collect from an allin caller who otherwise wouldnt give me his chips on later streets - e.g. KK, QQ). Remember, he was the aggressor -- so I was pretty sure his chips were all going in. I just wasnt sure if I wanted mine there. Maybe this isnt the highest EV logic?

nWirb

04-18-2005, 04:41 PM

I've seen ppl call like 10BB with 82o and the move all in on this kind of flop at the 33's, I mean this isn't what you should expect, but there's alot of fish out there and A8, 67s, K8s, KK-66 is certainly a possibility. I would probably have pushed after his reraise on the flop too, but other then that I would have played it the same.

Newt_Buggs

04-18-2005, 04:45 PM

The only way that you are saving your stack here is if you have a solid read on the flop raiser. Some passive players aren't going to raise even 99 here or A8 and this looks like a very suspicious raise. so, IMO, the flop is where this hand got decided and you just can't lay your hand down unless you know that he doesn't raise with just a pair.

I was playing 2-4 NL at a B&M casino. UTG raises, button reraises, UTG calls and flop comes down 2,7,10 which the UTG checkraises on after the button bets. The button thinks for a long time before folding and showing AA, and UTG flips over 77 ( I was impressed with the AA laydown on that flop).

Shorty35

04-18-2005, 04:54 PM

I just dont think anyone makes that laydown at this stage of a standard payout STT.