Playalong with AKo (I WANT EVERY ONE OF YOU TO GRUNCH THIS)

[aK13]

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: ThenAHEROComesAlong is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">IChoseTheWrongTimeToBlindSteal raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">ThenAHEROComesAlong 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, IChoseTheWrongTimeToBlindSteal calls, ThenAHEROComesAlong calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
ThenAHeroComesAlong....?

[PokerProdigy]

Looks like a good time to go for the check-raise, because betting out will NOT protect your hand, and it looks like someone will bet because there was so much preflop action. However, you also must realize that if you check BB might bet get call by IChoseTheWrongTimeToBlindSteal, who will NOT fold when you raise. Therefore, it wouldn't protect your hand and someone could argue that you should just keep betting out for value (unless someone raises you, which then you will have to re-evaluate).

[Kumubou]

Damn, could the button pick a worse spot to attempt a blind steal? &gt;_&lt;

Hero (with a really long name) bets and plans to three-bet the BBs raise. The only sane hand you are behind here is AA (well, A5 and A8 too, I guess). All three are less likely since two aces are out. More likely the BB has KK or QQ, and AK here would be just plain goofy (but it happens).

-K

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like a good time to go for the check-raise, because betting out will NOT protect your hand

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[sin808]

Bet, hope BB raises and folds out the button would be my first choice.

A c/r here might be ok too, since you're probably ahead of the button and can use him to pad the pot when BB bets (if he doesn't fold).

I guess it really would depend on who the BB and button were as to which would be the best choice.

edit: the more I think about it the more torn I am...

[SCfuji]

bb caps? looks like you are up against AA. time to fold.

[tijean]

Would BB cap with 88 or 55, let alone A8 or A5? The only thing you're behind here is AA - not impossible, but not likely.

Hero... bets - planning to smooth call a raise, and c/r a blank on the turn. If he 3-bets the turn - call him down.

[dozer]

Bet. What else are you supposed to do?

[ArturiusX]

Open fold.

No seriously, I think betting out is the play. AA isn't a huge possibility (two aces already seen), so we've almost certainly got the best hand, so lets put bets in that pot!

[Dave G.]

Bets. We probably have the best hand and if villain really is on a blind steal we want him to pay for it.

[chiachu]

id probably consider check raising then just bet out and hope someone has a weaker ace.

[RockPile]

easyGrunch...

check.

raise on the turn.

[scotty34]

I like a C/R on the flop here. Villain will almost surely bet, AA is only one of the possible hands he would cap with. We are pretty certain we are ahead. If we bet out, villain in all likelihood will raise, making CO face two cold. It's a drawless board, so I think we really want to keep CO in to build the pot. C/R'ing is the best way to do this. BB may even 3-bet your C/R which would force CO to pay even more, or just abandon his money in the pot.

[A_C_Slater]

I bet right out.

I figure there is a reason you post this and that is not the answer you are looking for so I will indulge you. By not betting out you encourage KK,QQ,JJ to bet to the river wheras they might fold to your flop bet afraid of the ace. But you could also get lots of bets off of AQ or AJ or maybe even the buttons Ax. Plus you must consider that KK, QQ, or JJ may pay you off anyway even raising and such to "keep you honest"

Reads would be helpful.

[Shillx]

...checks.

I'll hopefully let others elaborate.

Brad

[MooFrog]

I'd bet out, since my application of the check raise has been backfiring way too much lately. Also, with 2 people in for a capped preflop I think they'd be staying in with a lot of different hands, and expecting you to have a crappier hand than you have. Depending on the turn, that's when I would try for a check-raise (or just bet out again).

[RockPile]

The problem with betting is that they may fold. You assume you have the best hand so I think you check.call and then bet/raise the turn where you are going to make more bling.

right shill? isnt this the lesson from crumpets hand the other day?

[no1super2001]

n00b grunching...

Bet it and 3 bet it if the opportunity presents. If villian is continuing the steal attempt, he may check through hoping to increase his leverage when the bet doubles, so no checkraise.

[kong98]

/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif (In the dark)

I think you bet out on the flop. If they have a pocket pair, or a weaker ace you don't want to give them a free card. They'll be getting 13-1 on their call, so they are probably correct in calling, but I really don't like letting them see the turn for free.

And given the pre-flop action, there is a good possibility of a raise which I think you should 3-bet or cap.

Kong98

[crumpentunt]

I think you have the best hand. I am not afraid of AA here. I think there is a much greater chance he has KK, QQ, JJ, AQ...

I think I check, let the BB bet, then raise and hopefully have the button trapped in the middle to call one more. I then lead the turn. I think if your playing this hand to make the most money, this is the way to do it. If you wait to checkraise the turn he may decided to let it go through. But I think he is betting this flop no matter what, so I like the check/raise...

[istewart]

It's pretty classic WA/WB. You could probably do the oh-so-often-used c/c, c/c, bet line on this one.

That is, if he has AA you lose the minimum, but if he has KK-TT you win the maximum.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet out, since my application of the check raise has been backfiring way too much lately.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not the proper way to think about it. In a way this is analogous to saying "I'm not going to raise AKo PF anymore because it's been backfiring on me a lot lately." Either the problem is you are not using the C/R in the appropriate places and this is costing you OR you are applying it correctly, and the cards just haven't been running well for you as of late.

Either way, try reviewing some hands where you used it, and see if you think it was right. If any are giving you trouble, try posting a few and see what others think. If you determine you were doing the right thing, then keep at it, and let variance take its course. If not, re-evaluate, and try to make the necessary changes.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty classic WA/WB. You could probably do the oh-so-often-used c/c, c/c, bet line on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell no we are not using this line. We are not checking with the intention of calling here.

Brad

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty classic WA/WB. You could probably do the oh-so-often-used c/c, c/c, bet line on this one.

That is, if he has AA you lose the minimum, but if he has KK-TT you win the maximum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Noooooo...

It's checking to let hands that are drawing really really slim bet for you. I'd probably checkraise the turn though.

[SCfuji]

i agree. checking with the intention of folding is best.

[aK13]

The reason why I wanted all of you to grunch this was so that I could get a real, unbiased opinion about my own line. I felt that if I posted my line and my thought process, people's decisions would be skewed.

I checked, with the intention of raising BB's bet. Here's why:

I couldn't have asked for a better flop. No draws, Ace-rag-rag. Thus, at this point, I am way ahead or way behind (to AA, unlikely, but possible), so I don't mind if Button tags along with dead money since I am over 90% sure I am winning. BB capped preflop, so he is the expected bettor. So I check, hoping BB will bet and Button will call, then I can raise and trap the field for another bet. If I get 3bet by BB, Button will probably certainly fold, then I intend to cap, and if he leads the turn, I will check/call, expecting him to turn over AA. If I bet on the flop and given that I 3bet preflop, I certainly don't want to represent an Ace to BB, since I'm pretty sure he's got JJ-KK.

This hand, in fact, got checked through, which confirmed my suspicion that BB was likely capping with JJ-KK. River is a T /images/graemlins/spade.gif , and here I lead since it doesn't look like BB likes his hand anymore (after he checks the flop). BB calls down to the river, Button folds to turn bet. I don't know what BB has, since Paradise doesn't tell me, but MHIG.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
i agree. checking with the intention of folding is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome. Though folding preflop should also be considered here too. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[KaiShin]

I think its close between betting out and trying for a CR. I'd probably bet out, and hope that BB raises and blows Button out of the pot. Then I would probably call BB's raise, and look to CR the turn.

[SCfuji]

oh i get it. we are trying to induce weaker hands to bet?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
oh i get it. we are trying to induce weaker hands to bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. We want weaker hands to openfold.

[SCfuji]

yeah i actually do prefer the open fold. because these guys will always keep calling and calling and calling all the way until the river and then hit their set on me when my AK was the best hand the whole time.

[crumpentunt]

I think you played it well, unfortunate it got checked though on the flop.

[Duerig]

1. Choose more readable names for yourself and the villain

2. Bet this flop. Please.

[kapw7]

That's a good way to miss value bets with a strong hand. If you play so passively your big hands how can you expect to be profitable?

[kapw7]

I would rarely cap as BB with AA. I don't want to tell everyone that I have AA.

[kapw7]

I wish you played at my tables. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Maurader1]

check/(re)raise

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
I would rarely cap as BB with AA. I don't want to tell everyone that I have AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a better idea at a 2+2 table, since there are less players per flop and who will play cautiously to a cap. Against a normal table, they don't seem to care that you capped it.

I give credit to BB in my hand, as he seems to have put me on AK from my 3bet. He is actually one of the few thinking players out there...

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
That's a good way to miss value bets with a strong hand. If you play so passively your big hands how can you expect to be profitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not passive play. I was over 90% sure that BB would bet since he capped preflop and I checked this flop (I'm probably his biggest threat, and I thought he would sense weakness and bet, thinking he has the best hand), so I could earn an extra SB from him and Button.

[TheWorstPlayer]

How do you play QQ here? It seems to me like you would be likely to bet it out, but maybe not. If you would, then I think you should bet here.

[mvoss]

In the dark.

I'd bet this, you flopped TPTK, and given the preflop action you're only behind if someone has pocket aces.

[MrEngenic]

Slowplay and CR the turn if it gets bet and raised on the flop. You have TPGK and the only hand to be afraid of is AA which is not very likely. You won't make a worse A fold, so raise the turn and hope he doesnt have two pair.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's a good way to miss value bets with a strong hand. If you play so passively your big hands how can you expect to be profitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not passive play. I was over 90% sure that BB would bet since he capped preflop and I checked this flop (I'm probably his biggest threat, and I thought he would sense weakness and bet, thinking he has the best hand), so I could earn an extra SB from him and Button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clear this. My reply was for istewart comment:

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty classic WA/WB. You could probably do the oh-so-often-used c/c, c/c, bet line on this one.

That is, if he has AA you lose the minimum, but if he has KK-TT you win the maximum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your play was fine and not passive at all.

[walkdoc]

"Grunching"
Since you seem to be first to act, I'd probaly check/raise any action. You could be facing pocket Ace's, but you never know. A lot of maniacs out there, or people who take a re-raise personally and re-raise when they should not.
IMHO of course.
Walkdoc

[istewart]

Shill,

Hopefully you/someone else sees this during the day, few questions. Just came back and reread this thread.

To be honest, I didn't think the BB had woken up and capped preflop here; I thought the BB had folded and the open-raiser had capped.

However, I think the line I gave is a fairly dumb one with AK anyway (seeing we have such a great hand given the preflop action). So...

1) Are we check-raising a flop bet from either the open-raiser or the BB? If the flop action goes check - bet - raise, are we 3-betting?

2) What's a good line here if we 3-bet the open-raiser preflop with something like A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (and then the BB caps it)?

3) What's a good line here if we 3-bet the open-raiser preflop with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, the BB drops out, and the open-raiser caps it?

4) What's a good line if we 3-bet the open-raiser preflop with AK, the BB drops out, and the open-raiser caps it? Is check-calling the flop bad here (in hopes of perhaps check-raising the turn)?

Thanks fellas.

[TomBrooks]

Check with the intention of checkraising the preflop capper BB. If BB rereaises you, watch out, he might have you dominated with AA, but he would probably reraise with AK also and you could wind up spliting with him. It would be pretty unlikely for him to have AA since there are two already accounted for, but it could happen.

He could have capped with a lot less though, figuring that Button was stealing with only a decent hand and you were protecting with only a pretty good hand.

[jrz1972]

Please knock it off with the long names. I read through all 5 pages thinking BB hand folded and the stealer had capped. That changes things.

FWIW I'm going to be uncreative and check-raise the flop. If I knew my two opponents were LAGgy, I would go for the check-raise on the turn instead.

Also, people seem to be too worried about somebody having AA. I'm not really interested in saving bets when an opponent has to hold two specific cards in the deck to have me beat.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
bb caps? looks like you are up against AA. time to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree. QQ, KK, and maybe AKs would be likely to cap under any circumstances.

In this situation, BB would likely be correct to assume the Button may be stealing with any calling hand, the hero is protecting with a pretty good hand, and he may think even 99 is good enough to cap in this situation.

What happens on the flop will help sort this out.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bb caps? looks like you are up against AA. time to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree. QQ, KK, and maybe AKs would be likely to cap under any circumstances.

In this situation, BB may figures the Button is stealing with any calling hand, the hero is protecting with a pretty good hand, and he may think even 99 is good enough to cap in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why Hero probably should have folded preflop. Why get yourself into a situation where you have to play a guessing game when the flop hits? Just fold and wait for a big pair to come along.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet, hope BB raises and folds out the button would be my first choice. A c/r here might be ok too, since you're probably ahead of the button and can use him to pad the pot when BB bets (if he doesn't fold). the more I think about it the more torn I am...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think your fine letting button stay in for the ride here. There is no flush draw and unless he has 76 the most he could have is three to a straight. If he can fill a flush or a straight in from here, what are you going to do? Bad beats happen sometimes.

If he made two pair (A8, A4) or a set (88, 55) he's not going anywhere no matter what the bets.

[waynethetrain]

I attempt to check-raise. With all that raising pre-flop, I think it's highly likely BB bets (probably with AA-JJ or AK).

If Button calls, I raise immediately for value.

If Button folds (which is possible if he was just on a steal), then I might just call against my one opponent and call down until the river where I hit him with the raise.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you bet out on the flop. If they have a pocket pair, or a weaker ace you don't want to give them a free card. They'll be getting 13-1 on their call, so they are probably correct in calling

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course you don't want to give them a free card, and also you also want them to fold or put some of their money into the pot. Note, however that they would not be correct to call will a pocket pair. They're odds to improve on the next card are 22.5:1, not 13:1.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty classic WA/WB. You could probably do the oh-so-often-used c/c, c/c, bet line on this one. That is, if he has AA you lose the minimum, but if he has KK-TT you win the maximum.

[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree.

There are so many other hands he might cap with here preflop that to slow down now is seeing monsters under the bed and foregoing potential profits. If he raises a bet or reraises a checkraise, then I would agree to revert to your suggested strategy the rest of the way.

[SlantNGo]

I would check the flop, intending to raise a bet from BB while trapping CO for 1 and 1. I can see the merits of waiting for the turn, especially if CO drops, but I don't like this OOP unless BB is known to be aggressive postflop and continue firing with something like QQ on a turn blank. I think check/raising the flop, then leading out turn &amp; river is your best bet.

This is not standard WA/WB, your hand is too strong here. The only hand that beats you is AA, and that's unlikely because you've seen 2 aces already.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course you don't want to give them a free card, and also you also want them to fold or put some of their money into the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I'm not particulary worried about free cards on this flop with all that PF action. My opponents are probably drawing to either two or three outs each.

2. I do not want either opponent to fold. Basically I just want to play this hand in whatever method will milk them for the most money.

[Rev. Good Will]

Grunching as requested

bets. For a second, I was considering c/r since there is another aggressor behind us, but then I figured no c/r is needed, the pot is big enough to play straightfoward.

[mlb3zr]

I bet. Blind stealer could have A8 and BB could have AA, but I'm not going to see monsters yet. If BB raises and blind stealer calls, I'm tempted to smooth call. Then I can either check raise the turn or if I read BB as fairly aggressive I can donkbet/3bet. Donkbetting looks even better if I think blind stealer will call BB's turn raise as well.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bb caps? looks like you are up against AA. time to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree. QQ, KK, and maybe AKs would be likely to cap under any circumstances.

In this situation, BB may figures the Button is stealing with any calling hand, the hero is protecting with a pretty good hand, and he may think even 99 is good enough to cap in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why Hero probably should have folded preflop. Why get yourself into a situation where you have to play a guessing game when the flop hits? Just fold and wait for a big pair to come along.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold AK to a preflop steal? Terrible. No gOOt.

[jrz1972]

Your sarcasm detector is 0-2. Time to recalibrate. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KingOtter]

I'll admit, I read the replies first.

But it was mostly because I didn't see what else to do other than bet, and I wanted to see what other people were saying.

I'm pretty content with betting. I'd definitely 3-bet if raised.

Upon further perusing of the thread and looking at the hand I can see the flop check/raise possibilities (I need to start looking for these more), BUT if all BB has is a high pair there's a good chance he'll just check due to the A. The only hands I see betting on this board is someone with an Ace, or a stab at the pot.

I don't really like waiting for the turn on this one, though. Since I'm first-to-act I really don't like the possibility of a giving a free card to see the turn.

I can't believe how many people are including AA in their possible hands for BB. I would completely ignore that possibility. Seems incredibly remote.

KO

[Wetdog]

*grunch*

You have to bet out. There's no reason to slow play this. Evaluate after BB plays, since he capped.

[Shillx]

1) Are we check-raising a flop bet from either the open-raiser or the BB? If the flop action goes check - bet - raise, are we 3-betting?

2) What's a good line here if we 3-bet the open-raiser preflop with something like A J (and then the BB caps it)?

3) What's a good line here if we 3-bet the open-raiser preflop with A J , the BB drops out, and the open-raiser caps it?

4) What's a good line if we 3-bet the open-raiser preflop with AK, the BB drops out, and the open-raiser caps it? Is check-calling the flop bad here (in hopes of perhaps check-raising the turn)?

Sorry this got pushed back a few pages and I didn't see it.

1) If it goes check-bet-raise I would sometimes 3-bet and sometimes call with the intention of betting the turn (this is the FPS play and it will commonly work against thinking players). Against bad players I will usually 3-bet though and pray that he calls two more (since bad players love to put bets in drawing thin).

With 3 people in the pot we can afford to spew since we will usually be getting a better ROI by getting the money in then by playing carefully. If it gets down to HU before it gets back to us, then you have to play to get the most money out of a normally weaker hand (and it is tough to do). When it is 3-way you are usually just trying to ram it with hopes that either they call all bets or you get it HU with a hand like AQ that you have owned yet will get in there and tangle with you.

2) I like checking and calling in this spot (at least on the flop). The problem with betting is that if he has AK and knocks out the 3rd player we are now playing HU with 3 outs. If he has a hand like KK and just calls, we should have just checked/called to keep our hand strength hidden since one bet goes in either way.

3) Check-call, check-raise, bet.

4) Yeah check-call, check-raise, bet is an option. I would normally just lead out though as it looks the least fishy and he might goto war with AJ/AQ.

Brad

[ErrantNight]

they're not s00ted. why are you even playing this trash?

[Ptolemy]

It looks like I showed up late for the party and am stuck drinking the cheap beer but I'll grunch this as well.

No real straight draws, no flush draws, TPTK...I bet.

I'll read the posts to check but I'll ask the standard question. Any reads on BB?

[PokerProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like a good time to go for the check-raise, because betting out will NOT protect your hand

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I see what you're trying to say. A check-raise probably won't protect either right?

[jba]

you definitely have to bet here and I don't think it's close.

[string4]

*Blind response, critique welcome*

Hero checks w/ the intention of checkraising or 3-betting raised pot.

BTW, i gotta ask even tho I look dumber: does "grunch" mean responding w/out reading other responses?

[krishanleong]

I cr the flop. I also think betting sucks. And I don't like any line that allows a potential free card on the turn. (I don't play this limit though)

Krishan

[krishanleong]

Out of curiosity, how bad do you flop bettors think giving a free card is here?

Krishan

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Out of curiosity, how bad do you flop bettors think giving a free card is here?

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]
In my mind, it is more complicated than just wanting to give people a free card. I think that flop bets seem to be quite suspect to people in these games. And if someone rams and jams on the flop, I often see them getting called down by hands like mid pair. I want to bet the flop to make sure money is going in as much as possible and whiffing on a check/raise would be truly terrible from a value perspective. People seem to be much tighter on the big streets, particularly if they haven't been forced to put money in on the flop.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
bets. For a second, I was considering c/r since there is another aggressor behind us, but then I figured no c/r is needed, the pot is big enough to play straightfoward.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not about playing straightforward or "tricky". It's about maximizing EV.

Krishan

[McGahee]

If he checks it thru on the flop, what do you do on the turn?

[KeysrSoze]

grunch: Bet, and hope one of them raises, then reraise.

Edit: read thread, now agree with ak13's line

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
whiffing on a check/raise would be truly terrible from a value perspective.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. You just have to be correct a certain % of time. You don't have to succeed with a CR all the time for it to be the correct move.

[ QUOTE ]
And if someone rams and jams on the flop, I often see them getting called down by hands like mid pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, this is read based.

This is a pretty cut and dry flop cr in my book.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
grunch: Bet, and hope one of them raises, then reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your forcing out the person in between.

Here are things to consider when going for a cr.

1. Is there a likely flop bettor that I can evaluate my chance for a check raise against. In this hand, the preflop capper should bet the flop the majority of the time. If you don't know where a likely bet will come from a cr is a sketchy proposition.

2. Is my hand strong/weak. Am I going for protection and value. Can I trap/force people to face two. In this hand, my hand is strong. It doesn't need protection and there is a person trapped between the likely better and me. All points to cr. If you held a weak hand with the same position (say you held TT on a 238 board), you should bet out into a preflop raiser to try and clear the field.

3. How vunerable is my hand? If your hand is vunerable, you should be less likely to go for a cr since a free card can ruin you. In this hand your opponents have less than 5 outs on average. It's a very strong hand. Be less likely to go for a cr with the TT example earlier because if AK checks through you have to cry.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
If he checks it thru on the flop, what do you do on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet

Krishan

[ChoicestHops]

Im capping the flop. Im not scared of AA. A blind stealer could have many possible hands so it's pointless to try to pin point what exactly he has.

It would be very weak tight to check this.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Im capping the flop. Im not scared of AA. A blind stealer could have many possible hands so it's pointless to try to pin point what exactly he has.

It would be very weak tight to check this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not check calling. I'm not weak tight. I'd cap the flop also. I think leading out is a mistake.

Krishan

[ChoicestHops]

Im guessing that he lost the hand, possibly by AA or perhaps by Ax hitting the x on the flop or turn. But your equity is way too high in this hand not to cap the flop.

[aK13]

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks.

Turn: (6 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, Button folds.

River: (8 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

This is how it played out.

[ChoicestHops]

Button looks like he was beat at the flop, obviously. BB had to have a high pocket pair, or he was too scared to bet with his A and low kicker.

I still dont like the whole concept of checking on the flop, however. I dont want to give someone with A low kicker a free card to continue in the race.

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
bb caps? looks like you are up against AA. time to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i might as well raise everytime I play against you. How can you conclude with so much certainty there is AA out there? just cause someone raised!? I've capped with less than AA b4. *no offence, btw*

felipe

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with betting is that they may fold. You assume you have the best hand so I think you check.call and then bet/raise the turn where you are going to make more bling.

right shill? isnt this the lesson from crumpets hand the other day?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd LOVE them to fold! They can't chase s.hitty draws or suck me out at the river! And I'm guaranteed to win! without SHOWDOWN, with a hand i'm not 100% sure is best! bet, hope they fold!

felipe

*maybe i'm insane..*

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe, this is read based.

This is a pretty cut and dry flop cr in my book.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

When's your book coming out?

Felipe
/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Matt Jenko]

bet, c/r might be ok too, but i imagine the aggression will continue whatever you do...

[SlantNGo]

Bad thinking... you can get much more value out of this by either c/r the flop or c/c the flop, then c/r the turn. I prefer a flop c/r, then a turn c/r, before a flop bet.