What do you put Villain on? ( I failed to protect my hand)

[Sasnak]

Villain, UTG+1, is 58/2.7/.58 at 50 hands.

This hand really puzzled me. UTG+1 is very LP as is MP2. I felt if I attempted a CR it would get checked through. Had either opponent been aggressive in any manner I would have checked in hopes of CRing.

So I can't afford to give free cards and if I check I lose a bet and give them infinite odds to outdraw me. So is this just a simple freakin' race?!

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls. <font color="blue">(This wasn't too hard to figure... But what was his second card?) </font>

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

[istewart]

River sucks, but calling is probably okay given MP2. Rest is standard.

[McGahee]

I'm guessing his 2nd card was a 9 and UTG+1 is an idiot, otherwise you wouldn't be asking us to guess?

MP2 has nasty skills.

[milesdyson]

You can probably fold the river, but you can't do anything the rest of the hand. You are betting for value.

[ArturiusX]

I think you're good 1 in 10 times here.

[Sasnak]

[ QUOTE ]
You can probably fold the river, but you can't do anything the rest of the hand. You are betting for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way you can gambool on a CR right?

I reread SSHE's section on Protecting Your Hand again this morning. I was just OOP and screwed here I think. UTG+1 showed a --&gt; <font color="white">KTo</font> &lt;-- Knowing that, would you have played it differently?

If UTG+1 was either TAG or LAG, what's your line?

[aK13]

I put villain on ATo.

I don't think theres any way to protect your hand in this situation.

[Shillx]

Why are you looking to check/raise in this hand? This is perfect up until you call the river raise. You have one pair and it isn't going to be good in this spot often enough to pay off (and this is coming from someone who makes a lot of tough calls).

Brad

[Sasnak]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you looking to check/raise in this hand? This is perfect up until you call the river raise. You have one pair and it isn't going to be good in this spot often enough to pay off (and this is coming from someone who makes a lot of tough calls).

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

With the 2 hearts flopping there really is no way to protect my premium pair from the flush draw. According to SSHE it is correct to go for a check raise when a single bet won't do it.

The river play was bad looking back. A check call was in order. Isn't the pot getting a bit big to be folding for one bet on a check/call. Leading was poor but I was pushing it.

[KaiShin]

[ QUOTE ]
With the 2 hearts flopping there really is no way to protect my premium pair from the flush draw. According to SSHE it is correct to go for a check raise when a single bet won't do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Rut roh. Misapplication of concepts off the starboard bow!

Yes, you can utilize the check/raise to protect your hand, however:

1) As you noted you are not going to protect your hand from flush draws. ANY flush draw will and should call (or raise) the flop facing 2 cold. Check/raising flush draws will not force them out of the pot.

2) You cannot check/raise when you do not know where the bet will come from. This is very important. There was no 3-bet preflop, therefore you cannot count on anyone else to be the aggressor in this hand. Going for a check/raise and giving a flush draw infinite odds is way worse than just betting yourself.

3) When you cannot protect your hand, as you cannot in this case because you are out of position and have no angle for a CR, you MUST BET FOR VALUE. SSH stresses this at every opportunity, but a lot of people only run through the protection part without realizing the situations in which you can successfully protect your hand are few at these limits, compared to the situations where you must bet for value.

[ QUOTE ]
The river play was bad looking back. A check call was in order. Isn't the pot getting a bit big to be folding for one bet on a check/call. Leading was poor but I was pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I highly disagree with this. Leading the river was the correct play.

[Sasnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With the 2 hearts flopping there really is no way to protect my premium pair from the flush draw. According to SSHE it is correct to go for a check raise when a single bet won't do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Rut roh. Misapplication of concepts off the starboard bow!

Yes, you can utilize the check/raise to protect your hand, however:

1) As you noted you are not going to protect your hand from flush draws. ANY flush draw will and should call (or raise) the flop facing 2 cold. Check/raising flush draws will not force them out of the pot.

2) You cannot check/raise when you do not know where the bet will come from. This is very important. There was no 3-bet preflop, therefore you cannot count on anyone else to be the aggressor in this hand. Going for a check/raise and giving a flush draw infinite odds is way worse than just betting yourself.

3) When you cannot protect your hand, as you cannot in this case because you are out of position and have no angle for a CR, you MUST BET FOR VALUE. SSH stresses this at every opportunity, but a lot of people only run through the protection part without realizing the situations in which you can successfully protect your hand are few at these limits, compared to the situations where you must bet for value.

[ QUOTE ]
The river play was bad looking back. A check call was in order. Isn't the pot getting a bit big to be folding for one bet on a check/call. Leading was poor but I was pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I highly disagree with this. Leading the river was the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sh*t!

Now that you've brought that up it hit me. I was thinking on one plane of protecting my hand - trying to implement that strategy. And completely never thought of the section on how to play a flush/straight draw. He specifically mentions not giving it up on the flop so there is no way I could protect it.

Thanks Kai.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With the 2 hearts flopping there really is no way to protect my premium pair from the flush draw. According to SSHE it is correct to go for a check raise when a single bet won't do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Rut roh. Misapplication of concepts off the starboard bow!

Yes, you can utilize the check/raise to protect your hand, however:

1) As you noted you are not going to protect your hand from flush draws. ANY flush draw will and should call (or raise) the flop facing 2 cold. Check/raising flush draws will not force them out of the pot.

2) You cannot check/raise when you do not know where the bet will come from. This is very important. There was no 3-bet preflop, therefore you cannot count on anyone else to be the aggressor in this hand. Going for a check/raise and giving a flush draw infinite odds is way worse than just betting yourself.

3) When you cannot protect your hand, as you cannot in this case because you are out of position and have no angle for a CR, you MUST BET FOR VALUE. SSH stresses this at every opportunity, but a lot of people only run through the protection part without realizing the situations in which you can successfully protect your hand are few at these limits, compared to the situations where you must bet for value.

[ QUOTE ]
The river play was bad looking back. A check call was in order. Isn't the pot getting a bit big to be folding for one bet on a check/call. Leading was poor but I was pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I highly disagree with this. Leading the river was the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sh*t!

Now that you've brought that up it hit me. I was thinking on one plane of protecting my hand - trying to implement that strategy. And completely never thought of the section on how to play a flush/straight draw. He specifically mentions not giving it up on the flop so there is no way I could protect it.

Thanks Kai.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope YOU haven't been laying down flush draws to 2 bets cold, or you're definitely not making as much money as you probably could =/.

[Sasnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With the 2 hearts flopping there really is no way to protect my premium pair from the flush draw. According to SSHE it is correct to go for a check raise when a single bet won't do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Rut roh. Misapplication of concepts off the starboard bow!

Yes, you can utilize the check/raise to protect your hand, however:

1) As you noted you are not going to protect your hand from flush draws. ANY flush draw will and should call (or raise) the flop facing 2 cold. Check/raising flush draws will not force them out of the pot.

2) You cannot check/raise when you do not know where the bet will come from. This is very important. There was no 3-bet preflop, therefore you cannot count on anyone else to be the aggressor in this hand. Going for a check/raise and giving a flush draw infinite odds is way worse than just betting yourself.

3) When you cannot protect your hand, as you cannot in this case because you are out of position and have no angle for a CR, you MUST BET FOR VALUE. SSH stresses this at every opportunity, but a lot of people only run through the protection part without realizing the situations in which you can successfully protect your hand are few at these limits, compared to the situations where you must bet for value.

[ QUOTE ]
The river play was bad looking back. A check call was in order. Isn't the pot getting a bit big to be folding for one bet on a check/call. Leading was poor but I was pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I highly disagree with this. Leading the river was the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sh*t!

Now that you've brought that up it hit me. I was thinking on one plane of protecting my hand - trying to implement that strategy. And completely never thought of the section on how to play a flush/straight draw. He specifically mentions not giving it up on the flop so there is no way I could protect it.

Thanks Kai.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope YOU haven't been laying down flush draws to 2 bets cold, or you're definitely not making as much money as you probably could =/.

[/ QUOTE ]

No... I pump and call then miss. That's my line! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

But I'm working on protecting, raising to clean and get a free card if needed and the ever elusive river value bets.

[PokerProdigy]

Yeah, if I'm you I would bet this for value all the way through, exept you could have probably check-called the river instead of betting out.

His second card was probably the ace of hearts, right?

[tijean]

If it makes you feel any better, he made major mistakes calling both the flop and turn. You did protect your hand - you just got out-donked.

My question is - what the hell was MP2 cold-calling the river with?

[Sasnak]

[ QUOTE ]
If it makes you feel any better, he made major mistakes calling both the flop and turn. You did protect your hand - you just got out-donked.

My question is - what the hell was MP2 cold-calling the river with?

[/ QUOTE ]

A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif

[pointcount]

bet the river

[SCfuji]

youve got pocket queens! 3 bet this river!