Level 5 on PP: is this worth trying to steal blinds with?

[liucipher]

part of me says this is a fine play that just happened to backfire because the BB was a shortstack that held Ax. my heads-up odds weren't even that terrible I don't think.

still, I've been busted 2 out of my last 3 SNGs with KQ trying to steal the blinds and I'm wondering if I'm loosening up my starting hand selection too much in Level 5. should I be considering my chip size in relation to the "desperate short stack who wants to gamble" more?

fyi: i'm a n00b trying to build a $500 roll on the $5+$1's before moving up to $10+$1. for some reason I've hit a stall and hovered at $400 for the past three weeks.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t870)
UTG (t925)
Hero (t1025)
Button (t2262)
SB (t2918)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t500</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t370.

Flop: (t1170) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Turn: (t1170) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t1170) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1170

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 5d Ah (one pair, sevens).
Hero has Qc Kd (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: BB wins t1170. </font>

[The Yugoslavian]

Depends on the table.

I think a fold is generally a good idea in a $11.

Why are you raising to 500 instead of allin?!?!?

Yugoslav

[liucipher]

That is a good question. I didn't want to raise 400 because the chip stack behind me had been calling 400 w/ marginal hands. For some reason I chose 500 because I thought it'd be enough for him to think twice and, if he did call, give me something left over to walk away with if an A fell. In retrospect, pretty half-assed reasoning. Mainly I wanted to lean on the shortstack and get those 300 in blinds.

It's mainly garbled from "A good time to make a steal is when you are on the button or cut off (one off from the button) and everyone folds in front of you while you hold Ace/X, King/Face (King/X for aggressive players) or pocket pair. A raise of 2BB or 2.5BB is usually good enough to steal with in the later levels, although a 3BB bet is generally more effective since it reduces your opponents pot odds. Also, if you are ever short-stacked to the point that you will be needing to raise with over 40% of your chips, then you might as well go all-in, since you will practically be pot committed on the flop." which I read at http://teamfu.freeshell.org/tournament/no_limit_sng.html

[The Yugoslavian]

Umm....hunh?!

If you're going to play this hand push it (and *possibly* limp it, but not here, and not in a $11)....why even consider min-raising or raising to 500 given your chip stack here!?!?!?

The only real reason you raise to 500 here is because you want lesser hands to call you and are inviting more calls (which in this case will be reraise pushes)....unless you've got AA-QQ or AK I don't see how it's worth your while to get hands to push over the top of you.

Yugoslav

[Benholio]

With only 5xBB left I am pushing here without thinking twice.

If you had more chips or it was 4-handed and there was a shorter stack, etc, maybe its a fold. In this spot, I can't think of a good reason not to push.

[liucipher]

So mainly I should have just held my nose and pushed all in?

[Benholio]

Well, I would have.

Just as importantly, you need to know that you should never raise half of your stack unless you are trying to get more calls, like Yugo says. If you raise to 500 and someone goes all-in, you have to call anyway. So the only options are push / fold at this point.

[Patriarch]

Come on dude, you got $400, move up. $6s suck.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on dude, you got $400, move up. $6s suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

amen

[11t]

Auto push

[Nottom]

I push here pretty much 100% of the time.

[liucipher]

So a lot of people seem to think pushing here is fine. Out of curiosity, what do you think's appropriate on the hand below?

There's clearly a huge difference, because I'm getting min-raised by someone with a chip advantage, so the fold equity is significantly smaller.

At the time, KQ 4-handed in the short stack with only 6X BB felt like one of those hands where I'd have to have to hold my nose, push, and hope I had the best hand.

In retrospect I favor either 1.) trying to pick up an unraised pot in late position with the 900 in chips I have left after I post SB in the next hand or 2.) just waiting and hoping the other shortstack busts and pushes me ITM.

In general, I find myself often on the bubble in the shortstack wondering whether I need to start pushing and praying or waiting for some other fool (it's a $5+$1) to bust.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1835)
SB (t2324)
Hero (t1260)
UTG (t2581)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls t860.

Flop: (t1560) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Turn: (t1560) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t1560) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1560

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Qc Kh (high card, ace).
UTG has Ah Qh (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG wins t1560. </font>

[Matt Walker]

I agree with eveyrone else the first one is an autopush with your stack.

Also move up to the 10+1s other wise PPs fee will eat your profits.

This other hand you posted is a tough call. As with everything else in poker this is extremely read dependent. What do you know about UTG? Is he tight? Agressive? Is a min raise normal for him? Its so hard to make this decision knowing absolutly nothing about the guy. This being said my default play here is prob to fold and retain my stack so I have some folding equity on the next hand. In a five dollar buy in it would shock me if you weren't called and you are more likely to be dominated or a bad side of flip than dominate. Try to avoid marginal hands all in on the bubble when you don't have to.

[Newt_Buggs]

I agree, in this 2nd hand a read on UTG is really important, but at a $5 its also important to consider all 3 of the other players and how loose/tight Aggressive/passive they are. Loose aggressive $5 players are very likely to kill eachother and allow you to fold into the money (meaning i would gamble less) but loose passive players probably wont take care of eachother AND it will be hard to steal their blinds, so I might be more inclined to take risks.

[viennagreen]

even the quote that you posted is saying that you should push here.

40% of your stack is about 400 chips. you are committed by raising 500 chips anyway. there is no walking away from a reraise here.

and limping for 20% of your stack is always a bad bad bad idea.

if your going to play this, push. btw, i would play this.

[viennagreen]

there are big differences between open-raising, pushing into limpers, and pushing over the top of a raiser.

when you are short-stacked and the blinds are high, you won't get too many people that will say open-pushing is a bad idea. the other situations have much more to do with a "feel", and generally require a better hand than KQo.

[Nottom]

I think I would usually just call in hand 2. If this guy had been pretty tight, I'd prolly just fold.

[Matt Walker]

Whats your logic on the call? That would take his stack down to 800 with him posting 100 next hand (assuming he misses). This would all but elimate any fold equity he might have in a 5 dollar buy in. Not saying I disagree, I'm just curious to know why you would call. What would you do if you miss the flop? Say all rags or Jack high?

[Slim Pickens]

The first hand is an autopush. The second hand is close. I usually push this because I'm often left with a tight-enough table image to get away with it, although I have no problem with a fold and it may very well be the better play.

If you hovered at $400 in the 6's, moving up to the 11's for the 100 or so tournaments you probably played over the last few weeks would have given you the extra $100 just because of the reduced rake fraction.

Slim