2nd pair against preflop raiser, standard?

[Roy6]

Villain is unknown except he also raised his SB after limpers in the previous orbit. Although an SB raise is intertpreted as a strong holding I'm quite unsure about this guy's holding.
Is raising the flop a good idea? We git rid of MP and now it's a SB vs BB where people have maniacal tendencies.
I don't think I have odds to continune after the turn.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[Aaron51_lz]

I say call him down. Not necessarily because you will win the hand but pay for information. Seeing his hand will save or earn you money later. So for that reason, and the general suspicion that you may be ahead, I think you should call him down.

[cartman]

That is mighty expensive information. Paying two big bets when you are almost certainly behind is not a good investment in my opinion. Buy your information when it is on sale. For example, you are involved in a hand in which he bets the river and you think the odds are close, but not quite good enough to justify calling. Now maybe your desire for the information tips the scales just enough to call. In that case you are paying only a small fraction of a bet in expectation.

Cartman

[Roy6]

Would you play this hand differently?

[Aaron51_lz]

Now that I have put some more thought on it I would have to say I would fold on the flop. The pot isn't very big and you have 5 outs with an opponent behind you. Right now you are drawing to 2 pair. However one of your opponents may be on a flush draw, so even if you hit you could lose. So you may be behind to a queen, possibly against a flush draw and getting 7-1 odds for your money(6 big blinds pre-flop plus the small blinds bet). Had it been heads up between the blinds it may have been different, however having the opponent act behind you really hurts you. If he raises behind you, you are stuck paying 2 bets and will now wish you would have folded.

Thats why you (now) have to fold to a flop bet, and drop the hand right there.

[geormiet]

I like the flop raise, and I would just call down from the turn. You could have up to 5 outs if behind, if you are behind at all.

[stigmata]

I probably play it the same against an unknown, but if I have seen them get a bit out of line, I'm calling them down.

Also, if my table image is f'ed up (i.e. I keep missing the flop and folding, and people are now trying to run me over), I think I would want to be making these kind of showdowns.

[helpmeout]

This is 5/10 not 10/20.

Typical unknown at 5/10 is a passive non tricky player so I'd expect him to have KQ or better.

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you play this hand differently?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I would fold on the turn. His raise preflop combined with his 3-bet on the the flop and lead on the turn make me credit him with at least a Q. Once in a while you may catch him doing this with a big flush draw or a pocket pair below Q's, but not very often. You may also be drawing dead to QQ or to two outs against AQ or AA. Once I "conclude" that I am behind, it turns into a question of outs. I don't think I have enough here to merit taking the 7 to 1 odds I am offered at the time of my turn decision, even considering the implied odds.

Cartman

[Roy6]

Hey, I've folded on the turn. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[TMFS9]

nh, I'd play it the same