Another TT hand

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think I got at least preflop right this time. Flop, I'm pretty sure I had odds to peel one off. Not positive about the turn. And then river, I was thinking "Don't fold for one bet in a big pot." Is that correct logic?

PFR seems fairly aggressive but has only been at the table for a short while and I am multi-tabling.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

[milesdyson]

You're getting 14.5:1 on the flop, but you're not closing the action and there's a guy who cold called 3 bets preflop. If that guy were any good, I would fold here for sure (I'm not saying I wouldn't fold if that weren't the case). Let's say somehow we can squeeze enough outs from our backdoor draws (very debatable) to call this flop... we missed everything on the turn. We now have, at most, two outs.

There's only one combo of TT UTG+1 could have, so we can ignore it. He has JJ, QQ, KK, AA, or AK based on preflop, so you should drop this on the turn if you manage to get there.

[Kumubou]

Ugly flop. Cut your losses and start the next hand.

If anyone holds a J or K or UTG+1 has AA/QQ you are drawing to two outs. No way in hell do you have the odds to continue on this flop; it is not even close. You need ~22 bets in the pot to warrent chasing a set. You do have a backdoor straight, so I guess there is a little more value, but not enough to take a card off.

-K

[deepsquat]

id fold this flop. Theres no pf capping hands u will be good against.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
There's only one combo of TT UTG+1 could have, so we can ignore it. He has JJ, QQ, KK, AA, or AK based on preflop, so you should drop this on the turn if you manage to get there.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was wondering about that. What is the hand range for an unknown/aggressive to be raising and then capping UTG+1 in these games? Is is AA-TT/AK?

[ArturiusX]

Don't multitable if you can't make easy folds like this.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't multitable if you can't make easy folds like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I figured that was probably the case. That's why I posted it so you guys could yell at me even though she showed 99 and I took down the pot. Next time I'll fold. Thanks, all, this board is awesome!

[ArturiusX]

Sorry if I sounded a little harsh, but the tough love thing helped me so yeah I continue it :P

The key is UTG ignored his position and bet out on a scary board after raising post flop. How many hands do you think you beat? How many will you have beaten by the river?

Hands like this get tricky though when its checked to you. Suppose UTG and the next guy checked, what would you do? Bet? But what if UTG is tricky and check raises? And so on.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I definitely need the tough love. I have lofty goal for limit play, now, so I need people to yell at me when I play like a donkey. I hope to be playing more and posting more and definitely feel free to let me have it.

As I said, my thinking was basically that the preflop capper was likely to have a good hand that she would go lots of bets with but not a full house yet. Therefore, if I spiked a ten on the turn, I would more than get the necessary bets in. When CO didn't raise, I figured he was drawing, since there was the flush draw on the board and figured he would raise if he had hit the board. He was also a very loose donk, which I forgot to mention initially. But, all, told, I do agree that I should have folded it. I didn't know what CO was going to do on the flop, so I likely could have had it raised behind me and I could even have been drawing dead. Not a good situation. And even if I hit a backdoor straight, it might easily lose to a flush or full house which would prove quite costly.

Then, once I get to the turn incorrectly, I should certainly fold that once the preflop capper keeps betting. Against, CO could easily just have waited for the turn to raise, so not closing the action, this call is truly terrible. But then, once I finally get to the river, I do think I have to call since it is only one bet and CO truly looks like he was drawing either to a straight or the flush at this point. But yes, terrible hand. I can only thank Party that the fish always win. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[toss]

You have two outs at best and you may already be drawing dead. I don't know why you showed down for.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
You have two outs at best and you may already be drawing dead. I don't know why you showed down for.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. I think that's been made clear. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif (Of course she was actually the one drawing to two outs, but I think it is pretty clear that that is extremely unlikely to be the case.)

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely need the tough love. I have lofty goal for limit play, now, so I need people to yell at me when I play like a donkey. I hope to be playing more and posting more and definitely feel free to let me have it.

As I said, my thinking was basically that the preflop capper was likely to have a good hand that she would go lots of bets with but not a full house yet. Therefore, if I spiked a ten on the turn, I would more than get the necessary bets in. When CO didn't raise, I figured he was drawing, since there was the flush draw on the board and figured he would raise if he had hit the board. He was also a very loose donk, which I forgot to mention initially. But, all, told, I do agree that I should have folded it. I didn't know what CO was going to do on the flop, so I likely could have had it raised behind me and I could even have been drawing dead. Not a good situation. And even if I hit a backdoor straight, it might easily lose to a flush or full house which would prove quite costly.

Then, once I get to the turn incorrectly, I should certainly fold that once the preflop capper keeps betting. Against, CO could easily just have waited for the turn to raise, so not closing the action, this call is truly terrible. But then, once I finally get to the river, I do think I have to call since it is only one bet and CO truly looks like he was drawing either to a straight or the flush at this point. But yes, terrible hand. I can only thank Party that the fish always win. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark my words when I say this:

You're over thinking and forgetting the basics. Pot odds. Hand reading.

Play simple, hard, leakless poker, and you will win money. Reading that post, you sound like a friday night gambler. You might want to double check why you're playing poker.

[bonaparte]

grunchin.....

I agree with PF play.

On the flop.... AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AJ, Kx, Jx all have you in a pretty bad situation. You probably need a full house to win, which means, on the flop, that you need a T or a K. If you get a K you may still lose with second best due to a higher pocket pair. With a T you have a better chance of winning even if somebody else holds a K and only a AA pocket pair will beat you here. I look at one more card (for 1 bet) and if I do not improve I fold.

[bonaparte]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't multitable if you can't make easy folds like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow!! I just said I would see one more (for one bet), a lot of you said you would fold. You have all given me something to think about today.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
You're over thinking and forgetting the basics.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not forgetting the basics - I never knew them in the first place. But thanks for helping me out. I'm not sure what you mean by the Friday night gamblor line, but that's okay. I think it's clear that I should have folded the flop and then again on the turn. Thanks again for the help.

[waynethetrain]

I am probably too tight in these situations, but I would have tossed it in on the flop.

Many players will only cap AA, KK, QQ, JJ and AK. You are losing to all those. Even if this player is a little more aggressive, some of his capping hands would still be ahead of you (AJs).