How do you play small pairs?

[Cumulonimbus]

I find myself constantly raising or folding with small pairs. I go with the Doyle strategy, bet PF, bet flop, bet turn, and give up if raised. Rarely do I limp unless I'm getting good odds to flop a set.

This is where my question arises. If I'm in a 6 handed game and the first 3 positions already limped in and I hold say, 33. It still doesn't seem correct to call because I'm not getting my 1-11 odds for my set, I'm only getting a max of 1-6. Thoughts?

[HelloGoodbye]

It would help if you mentioned what game you are playing. Either way, ''implied odds'' is the term you need to understand.

[Cumulonimbus]

I usually play 1-2 limit. You answered my question though. Thanks.

[damaniac]

First, you aren't 11-1 to flop a set. You have a 10.8% chance to flop a set or better, meaning you are getting 8.3/1. Unless you are in a blind, you're almost never going to get those odds preflop. However, as the first respondent mentioned, implied odds are the key.

Say you have pocket 2's. You're going to fold the flop unless you make a set (most of the time). Hence those 8.3 times you miss, you fold, losing the 1 bet you put in preflop. The 1 time you hit, however, your hand is very strong and well-concealed, so you should win a large portion of the time, and win a lot doing so. In order to make this profitable, you need to limp when it costs you very little to get in (you expect to see the flop for 1 bet), and you have enough opponents, or aggressive enough opponents, to give you the action you need to turn a profit. People generally say 5-1 is good enough, though once you get more adept at playing the pairs, you can adjust as needed. Then as your postflop skills develop, you can play profitably sometimes when you don't flop a set as well. But until then, loose passive fields preflop are the situations you are looking for to play small pairs.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
I find myself constantly raising or folding with small pairs. I go with the Doyle strategy, bet PF, bet flop, bet turn, and give up if raised. Rarely do I limp unless I'm getting good odds to flop a set.

This is where my question arises. If I'm in a 6 handed game and the first 3 positions already limped in and I hold say, 33. It still doesn't seem correct to call because I'm not getting my 1-11 odds for my set, I'm only getting a max of 1-6. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't use Doyle's strategy because he play's no limit. His strategy might be successful for him because he has 2 ways of winning, making his set, or getting his opponents to fold. The second way is very important. You won't get many people to fold when you raise in limit poker.

[tek]

The OP said his his second post that he plays 1/2 NL.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
The OP said his his second post that he plays 1/2 NL.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually play 1-2 limit. You answered my question though. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
No he didn't.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
You have a 10.8% chance to flop a set or better, meaning you are getting 8.3/1.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a repost (not mine, but clearly stated) from the probability forum showing how to calculate the odds to flop a set. You are clearly better than 8.3:1

[ QUOTE ]
The correct equation for the flop is:

(2/50)*(48/49)*(47/48)*3 = .115, or in terms of odds 7.68:1

If you miss the flop, then for the turn it is 45/47 or 22.5:1

River:
44/46 or 22:1

Turn or River:
(45/47)*(2/46)*2 = .0832 or 11:1

[/ QUOTE ]

[FishAndChips]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have a 10.8% chance to flop a set or better, meaning you are getting 8.3/1.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a repost (not mine, but clearly stated) from the probability forum showing how to calculate the odds to flop a set. You are clearly better than 8.3:1

[ QUOTE ]
The correct equation for the flop is:

(2/50)*(48/49)*(47/48)*3 = .115, or in terms of odds 7.68:1

If you miss the flop, then for the turn it is 45/47 or 22.5:1

River:
44/46 or 22:1

Turn or River:
(45/47)*(2/46)*2 = .0832 or 11:1

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, your odds are a little better if you don't mind flopping quads every now and again /images/graemlins/smile.gif If you calculate the odds that neither of your other two cards come on the flop, you get: 48/50*47/49*46/48 = .8825. Therefore the chance for you getting at least a set on the flop is .1175, or 7.51-1.

[Cumulonimbus]

Actually, I have very positive results for the most part when betting the flop after a PFR. Of course, I play shorthanded and keep it to 6-max and only bet when I know that my opponent has the capacity to fold. If I'm playin with a loose fun-havin' chaser, I'll take one off.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I have very positive results for the most part when betting the flop after a PFR. Of course, I play shorthanded and keep it to 6-max and only bet when I know that my opponent has the capacity to fold. If I'm playin with a loose fun-havin' chaser, I'll take one off.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, well that is a completely different story. You didn't mention that you play 6 max. It's a much different game than full ring. I still believe that it is dangerous to apply Doyle's no limit strategy to limit games though. It just happens that it works in this case. I would recommend studying the short hand forum on this website instead of copying what Doyle or any other no limit player.