Generating Random Numbers at the table

[theDetroitKid]

I wondering if there is an effecient way to generate random numbers (1 to n) in your head a the table for the purpose of game theory bluffs etc.

Thanks
theDetroitKid

[STLantny]

dice.

[New York Jet]

Buy a watch with a second hand.

[theDetroitKid]

Is there a way to do this without giving a tell by looking at your watch? perhaps using the cards on the board etc.

theDetroitKid

[New York Jet]

What kind of tell is looking at your watch? Let's say everytime you looked at your watch, I knew you were using game theory. What would I do to combat this?

Maybe you should try a watch with sunglasses?

To answer your question, how about this:
(Number of chips in your shortest stack x Seat number of Button)
Assuming you stack your chips in sets of 20, your shortest chip stack will be between 1 and 20. At a ten seat table, the button will be between seat 1 and seat 10. So your range of numbers will be between 1 and 200. If looking for a number between 1 and 100 (i.e. for percentages), divide your result by 2, then round up.

Example - 16 chips in shortest stack, seat 3 has the button.
(16 x 3)/2 = 24%

[jason1990]

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of tell is looking at your watch? Let's say everytime you looked at your watch, I knew you were using game theory. What would I do to combat this?

[/ QUOTE ]
You would have to be careful to make sure you always looked at your watch, even when you weren't trying to decide whether or not to bluff. If you decide you will bet when you make your hand and 10% of the time that you don't, then you only need the watch when you miss, but you should look at it even when you hit. That could become a little tedious.

But you could get a pocket watch and use it as a card protector. Then look at the second hand when you check your hole cards. Suppose the seconds were 37. Then, later in the hand, if you need a number between 1 and 7, use 2 since 37 divided by 7 leaves a remainder of 2. Or if you need a number between 1 and 4, use 1 since 37 divided by 4 leaves a remainder of 1.

[whiskeytown]

I really don't think glancing at your watch and deciding to bluff 25 percent of the time (i.e. from the 45-60 sec. mark) is gonna be nearly that obvious, or that easy to counter. I look at it all the time anyways....wondering how much more time is left in the round

As Dan Harrington said in Harrington on Holdem, even if your opponents know you're doing this...what are they gonna do, ask to see your watch? - nah nah

RB

[Kovner]

Yeah - a watch is the way to go. Don't only use your watch to determine whether to bluff on the end or not (in fact, this is probably not a useful application of generating a random number because you couldn't do the TOP calculations to determine Game Theory correct frequency at the table), and you won't be giving off any tells.
For example, Harrington reccomends mixing up how often you raise pre-flop with different hands, what size your bets will be on the flop, etc. Since the many uses overlap, your opponents won't know which reason you're looking at your watch for.
If you're still concerned, you can place your watch on the table near your chips, on your cards, on the arm-rail, etc. so you're just looking down to look at it.
I have one problem with this technique though: If you need to generate a random number twice in one hand (this applies most when the two times are flop, turn or turn, river), the second number is related to the first in a non-random way.
For example, say you determine your continuation bet on the flop should be half the pot because of what your watch says. Your HU opponent instantly calls, the turn comes and you look at your watch again. If this situation happened 100 times, the 2nd number would be different from the 1st by a predictable (on average) amount. Make sense?
Anyways, once you do the watch thing for a couple of sessions you realize its not that neccesary. Mix up your game and keep in mind the general distributions of frequencies for the different situations and you'll be fine.

[Jazza]

the easiest method i find to pick a number between 1 and 12 is to look at your hole cards

/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif=1
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif=2
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif=3
/images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif=4
/images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif=5
/images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif=6

and so on

most of the time you don't need greater precision than 1/12 when trying to pick a random number

[MtDon]

What do you do if you're suited? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guthrie]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if you're suited? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise.

[Jazza]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if you're suited? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, i forgot about that

then all you have is a random number 1,2,3 or 4

[dansalmo]

Using the suites and ranks of the cards in your current and/or previous hands, including the order they are received is a good method. Using any thing else that others have access to such as board cards or time can deos not technically increase the randomness. There will be limitations on some hands such AA, but if you remember that you folded 2h7c last hand then you have a large variety of random numbers to choose from.

[blank frank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if you're suited? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, i forgot about that

then all you have is a random number 1,2,3 or 4

[/ QUOTE ]

You can still get an even distribution, you just have to work it differently. Your first card is 1, 2, 3, or 4 depending on suit. Your second card is 0, 4, 8, 12 depending on suit. Add the two together and you have a random number from 1 to 16. Furthermore, rather than always having a low number when you're suited, you could have 1, 6, 11, or 16, so it will be harder for the other players to guess when you are suited.

Or you can get 1 to 10, by assigning a unique number to each suit combo regardless of order:

/images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif = 1
/images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif = 2
/images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif = 3
/images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif = 4
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif = 5
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif = 6
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif = 7
/images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif = 8
/images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif = 9
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif = 10