Why do slow blind levels help skilled players?

[David04]

Why do slowly increasing blinds help the skilled players? I need to explain to somebody I know, who is trying to tell me that rapidly increasing blinds actually HELPS the good players.


Thanks.

[Freudian]

More postflop play.

[Maulik]

An argument can made that rapidly increasing blinds can expedite the process of good players beating bad players faster; you guys do it all the time.

[microbet]

More hands.

[pokerlaw]

Take extreme examples:

GAME A: 10 players; 800 chips; 10/15 blinds that increase after EVERY hand; OR

GAME B: 10 players; 800 chips; 10/15 blinds that increase every 1,000,000 hands.

Which game do you think a monkey would do better in?

[Ogre]

More hands for the odds to play out.

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]
Which game do you think a monkey would do better in?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, how big of a monkey? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
An argument can made that rapidly increasing blinds can expedite the process of good players beating bad players faster; you guys do it all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at Stars/UB style SNGs with slow blind increases. But this is basicall becasue I'm not much of a NL player outside of tourneys. I know how to play Party style SNGs which is its own style of poker an accept the fact that once the blinds are big its a matter of understanding the EV of you hand vs what your opponent might have and folding equity and thats really about all you need to know.

In fact I commented just last night to a fellow 2+2er that I sometimes feel completely lost when the bubble comes faster than it "should" and there are 4 players left with 25/50 blinds or something like that. I think I still hold my own, but I think my edge in those spots is lower.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
More hands for the odds to play out.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the comparison is going to be fair, we have to assume the same number of hands either way. In which case, the odds play out either way, as they always do.

[microbet]

If the blinds go up slower, there will be more hands.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An argument can made that rapidly increasing blinds can expedite the process of good players beating bad players faster; you guys do it all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at Stars/UB style SNGs with slow blind increases. But this is basicall becasue I'm not much of a NL player outside of tourneys. I know how to play Party style SNGs which is its own style of poker an accept the fact that once the blinds are big its a matter of understanding the EV of you hand vs what your opponent might have and folding equity and thats really about all you need to know.

In fact I commented just last night to a fellow 2+2er that I sometimes feel completely lost when the bubble comes faster than it "should" and there are 4 players left with 25/50 blinds or something like that. I think I still hold my own, but I think my edge in those spots is lower.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything you just said there rings true to me.

[Blarg]

Only per game. But games ending sooner means you just get in more games. It doesn't matter that your hands are in this game or that one; they're still hands and the odds always still apply. Odds never apply more or less or become more short-term or long term. They're just the odds, that's all. They just get applied in a different mix of situations depending what structure you're in. You never get more or less of the odds applying just because you play this game instead of that one.

[Voltron87]

I'll tell you a secret. They don't.

[microbet]

Interesting. You are certainly more likely to win a given tournament if you are a better player and there are more hands, but you are effectively playing for higher stakes at the same buy-in and shorter blind levels.

If you think about a coin flipping tournament with a weighted coin you wouldn't care if there were 1 flip/tourney and 1000 tourneys or 1000 flips/tourney and 1 tourney, but you certainly wouldn't want to put your whole bankroll on a single 1 flip tournament.

But, that doesn't include the rake. If you have slower blinds, you have less rake per hand played.

[DVC Calif]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do slowly increasing blinds help the skilled players?

[/ QUOTE ]

The odds to draw AA are 220:1 and to get any pocket pair 16:1. Would you rather be paying less in blinds while your waiting for your hand or risk getting blinded out and have to gamble it up? Most players prefer to depend upon their patience and skill, rather than luck, to determine the outcome.

That being said, there are strategies to deal with turbos, that may give an edge to those that understand the gap concept and fold equity.

HTH, Steve

[Blarg]

True.

Another note -- if you have a skill advantage, cycling through more tournaments per hour would do you more good than cycling through more hands per tournament. You're still applying your skill or lack of it all the time either way, but to more prizes per hour on the quicker tourneys.

[Slim Pickens]

If you are thinking about ROI, or average finish per tournament, an your friend is thinking about $/hr, you are both correct. A better player is able to take advatage of the rapidly-increasing blinds because as a better player he is able to adapt his stategy more effectivly as compared to other players. The faster/higher blinds just create a smaller numerical advantage per tournament.

I guess what it comes down to is that a player's skill advantage per hand is probably consistent across blind structures, but hands/tournament and tournaments/hour vary so as to give a player playing the faster structure makes more money per hour while winning less per tournament.

[Voltron87]

Faster SNG blind structures= More tournaments and higher earn.

Longer levels= Higher ITM ROI, but less tournaments are played so the volume of $$ you wager that you multiply your ROI by is less so profit is less.



The gain in ROI a good SNG player gets from longer levels is not enough to offest the decline in money wagered.

This might change if the player in question knows a lot of specifics about the players he is playing with and can play the first 3 levels differently than if he is playing with unknowns.