AKs bb hand

[Chris Daddy Cool]

party 15/30

utg raises. cc1, cc2, cc3, cc4, cc5, sb come along for the ride. i'm in the bb with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and 3-bet. UTG calls. cc1 calls. cc2 calls. cc3 caps. we all come along for the ride. 8 to the flop for 32 small bets.

flop: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

sb checks. i bet.

[TheDelChop]

I don't see what the point in 3-betting here is, but if your gonna do it you might as well bet the flop. If you hit any card that even remotely helps you on the turn I would bet again. (Diamond, Ace, King, Queen, Jack) but I don't see you having a whole lot of fold equity here.

Why you don't just call the raise and see where you stand? 3-betting does not help you win this big pot.

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]
8 to the flop for 32 small bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

8 to the flop?????

In my last 5K hands this has happened exactly 0 times at 3/6.

WTF?!?!

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Why you don't just call the raise and see where you stand? 3-betting does not help you win this big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on now, 3-betting is purely the correct play, simply on an equity basis. He's not trying to fold anyone before the flop.

On the flop, if you think UTG will raise here with not just overpairs, but maybe similar overcards as well, then I like the bet out. Anyone folding this flop will probably be doing so incorrectly, and that's huge.

If it gets raised, then 3-bet behind you, then it's a tougher hand to play, but even then I'd peel off one more card, and try to go runner runner diamonds.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Why you don't just call the raise and see where you stand? 3-betting does not help you win this big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-betting preflop is incredibly routine here. i'll let others elaborate.

[bisonbison]

I don't see what the point in 3-betting here is

Most of us play poker to win money.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't see what the point in 3-betting here is,

[/ QUOTE ]

Value. This is a ridiculously easy 3-bet.

[Entity]

Chris,

I think I'd check this flop. I don't see that much of a problem with betting if the intent is to slow down action, but I don't know if that's happening given the preflop action.

Rob

[disjunction]

I assume the bet is to thin the field somehow? I don't see a bet eliminating anyone who can possibly give us trouble on later streets.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
party 15/30

utg raises. cc1, cc2, cc3, cc4, cc5, sb come along for the ride. i'm in the bb with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and 3-bet. UTG calls. cc1 calls. cc2 calls. cc3 caps. we all come along for the ride. 8 to the flop for 32 small bets.

flop: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

sb checks. i bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see what the point in 3-betting here is,

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]

If it gets raised, then 3-bet behind you, then it's a tougher hand to play, but even then I'd peel off one more card, and try to go runner runner diamonds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You couldn't be more wrong. The proper play is to go runnerrunner red QJ.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If it gets raised, then 3-bet behind you, then it's a tougher hand to play, but even then I'd peel off one more card, and try to go runner runner diamonds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You couldn't be more wrong. The proper play is to go runnerrunner red QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I considered that, but diamonds have been coming up a lot on the turn and river for me lately, so I'd have to play the odds there.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If it gets raised, then 3-bet behind you, then it's a tougher hand to play, but even then I'd peel off one more card, and try to go runner runner diamonds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You couldn't be more wrong. The proper play is to go runnerrunner red QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I considered that, but diamonds have been coming up a lot on the turn and river for me lately, so I'd have to play the odds there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected. I apologize.

[disjunction]

Hmmm, all this runner-runner talk makes me think that with the 6 players that will see the turn with similar draws, this may be a value bet.

I still don't like it. As weird as it sounds, I don't want to build the pot more to give people odds to draw to a gutshot (assuming that they're looking at such things) when the turn is raised.

On the flip side, when the flop gets raised you are thinning the field from people drawing to runner-runner.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Preflop - love it

Post flop - check it. Let everyone else do the work for you. A field of this size will not narrow down enough when the pf raiser bets out. A bet here won't make a bit of difference.

C3's preflp action are odd... I'd love to know what he had after the thread dies down.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
party 15/30

utg raises. cc1, cc2, cc3, cc4, cc5, sb come along for the ride. i'm in the bb with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and 3-bet. UTG calls. cc1 calls. cc2 calls. cc3 caps. we all come along for the ride. 8 to the flop for 32 small bets.

flop: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

sb checks. i bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without reading the rest of the thread, I opened up the post just because it was a CDC post about a hand that I'd seen the flop with before...

scrub

[Carmine]

The only thing I can say for sure is whatever right/wrong decisions you make in this hand is not going to be considered a big leak in your game (how many times will you be in this situation in your lifetime).

I would say the bet out is good because you are being viewed as the legit PF aggressor and you could easily be put on a high PP. CC3's cap should be viewed as a joke or he would have 3-bet first time around. If CC3 continues his bluff he may raise to help drive out players (I don't know how possible that is on a small street in this pot), of course a check by you would have accomplished the samething(CC3 bets you raise. The only person you can semi-rely on to help you manipulate the field is center of the pack). Given that I cannot come up with a reason why checking is better. Betting out has to be the better play. Even if it only tilts the scales 51-49% in our favor.

You give no read as to what players are involved here. I realize this is not a table full of TAGs, but just how loose are we talking. With the information/lack of, you have provided I would say you are in 3rd place on the flop. Behind Tx and a PP. Other than your /images/graemlins/diamond.gif draw I would be praying for a K. #1- I think we need to assume many of the A outs are in OP holdings. #2- If Tx does exist it is most likely AT.

[Hoi Polloi]

I like the flop bet a lot. Gives UTG and/or CC3 a chance to help you push others out with a re-raise. Whatever you can do to increase your chances to win this pot...

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see what the point in 3-betting here is

Most of us play poker to win money.

[/ QUOTE ]



LOL - literally.

Man Bison, your responses are classic.



Adam

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the flop bet a lot. Gives UTG and/or CC3 a chance to help you push others out with a re-raise. Whatever you can do to increase your chances to win this pot...

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, are people folding here for two cold, or even three cold, very often? They're getting 17:1 if UTG raises...

[toss]

If CDCs not betting to drive people out, does that mean he's value betting with his 2.5 ~ 5 outs in such a large field?

[oreogod]

Not if they know anything about odds. I think its safe to assume ppl at 15/30 know what pot odds are and such so I doubt they are folding much.

[oreogod]

Id say he has about 3.5 outs, at the most...about 15 percent equity, its minor but im guessing thats what it is.

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see what the point in 3-betting here is

[/ QUOTE ]

ha ha ha. people are making fun of you!

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Man Bison, your responses are classic.




[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure "classic" is the word I'd use.

[Michael Davis]

I think I would rather check and raise to represent a stronger hand that might actually get a few people to fold. However, I think this flop is the worst unpaired to go splashing around in. The pot is gigantic and I'm with you as far as trying to force players out, but I think checking does a better job of both seeing whether or not you can get anyone out (e.g. the bet comes from your right and everyone calls) and pushing those out who might fold (e.g. checked to late position bettor who bets). But I could go either way if I were convinced that your play had a better chance of knocking people out. I don't think it does, as the guy you want to raise is unlikely to have picked up anything on this board.

-Michael