AQ, AJ, KQ in early rounds

[luckyplayer]

Been playing at party for about a week now, but have read HOH a few times and have been trying to digest this board for about a month. I started out about 18 months ago playing home NLH tourneys, then switched to limit cashgames for awhile to work on general gameplay. Now I'm back where I want to be and plan on trying to learn as much as possible.

One thing that interests me is the different way AQ, KQ, and AJ are often played. In limit these hands are often raised in an unraised pot, regardless of position. I understand why that is typically not the case in NL, but I have noticed from searching this board that many on this board deem these unplayable in the early rounds, while Brunson recommends playing them in SS (cash games), and Harrington recommends playing them in unraised pots, and opening with each of them if 1st in the pot.

This might seem like a complete waste of time to some, but I think it would be worthwhile to get some discussion going about the play of these hands early in the STT. There wasn't a lot of discussion on these listed in the new Favorite Threads/FAQ post, and given that lots of noobs will begin playing with the attitude that these are strong hands, I think it could be very beneficial to a lot of players.

So to get it going, assume party structure, 1st 3 rounds, 3 different scenarios: 1) First in pot, 2) 1 limper in front of you, 3) 3 limpers in front of you.

[Freudian]

With another blind structure they are more playable.

I do play AQ often in level 1-2 and have done well with it. I limp with it most of the time. KQs and AJs I play in late position.

The reason for avoiding hands like this is that it is very easy to cripple your stack when you flop top pair. Level three is different for me. There I often raise both AJ and AQ, if I think I can get the blinds.

I think all three hands are playable with +EV in level 1-3, as long as you pay attention and can get away from even a decent flop. I have no idea how to approach them at 55$+.

[Page Jacobson]

According to Aleo's guide to beating PP 10+1 NLHE you fold AJo, KQo, ATo, KJo, QJo, JTo, and worse in rounds 1-3.

AQ is marginal

[luckyplayer]

Yeah, I've read his guide. He posted recently that he would recommend NOT using his guide, and that instead newbies should read the links in The Shadows Favorites post. I figured that instead of taking 1 person's rules, it would be more beneficial to get feedback from many different players, including those who may be more willing to play them early.

[luckyplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
With another blind structure they are more playable.

I do play AQ often in level 1-2 and have done well with it. I limp with it most of the time. KQs and AJs I play in late position.

The reason for avoiding hands like this is that it is very easy to cripple your stack when you flop top pair. Level three is different for me. There I often raise both AJ and AQ, if I think I can get the blinds.

I think all three hands are playable with +EV in level 1-3, as long as you pay attention and can get away from even a decent flop. I have no idea how to approach them at 55$+.

[/ QUOTE ]

So with AQ, are you limping because you figure to be behind, either because somebody could limp with a monster or because only hands that beat you will call a raise? Or are you limping because you regard it as a drawing hand, and want to make sure you have strength before playing it strongly?

With KQs and AJs, are you playing in late (I assume you're limping) for basically the same reason?

Would you not raise these hands if folded to you in MP3, CO, or Button? Or would that depend on the blinds?

[Freudian]

I'm limping because the chance of stealing blinds with a 3BB bet at level 1-2 is very low. So basically I want to see a cheap flop. When I don't hit, I don't have any problem getting away from it. I have tried to be very disciplined about using chips in level 1 and 2. A "it's only 30 more chips" attitude is going in the wrong direction.

AJs and KQs I like to have plenty of people in the hand. I don't raise them to steal blinds in LP, at least not in level 1. In level 3 I probably do.

The main elements to levels 1-2 are still to see cheap flops with 22-JJ (22-55 with a few limpers) and hoping to flop a set and playing the premium hands very strongly.

[raptor517]

the reason you dont limp with these hands is because most of the low limit posters have a hard time getting away from top pair. thats a problem when you dont have the best kicker. i fold because i dont want to HAVE to fold top pair. if i have AK and it comes K72 im probably not going anywere. however, if i have KQ, i might be able to get away from it. in these sngs, its just not worth risking the chips with such marginal hands. holla

[RobGW]

Whether or not you play these hands should depend on your post flop skills. For newbies, the best way to stay out of trouble is not to play them at all, early in the tourney at least. For more experienced players they can play these hands profitably.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
the reason you dont limp with these hands is because most of the low limit posters have a hard time getting away from top pair. thats a problem when you dont have the best kicker. i fold because i dont want to HAVE to fold top pair. if i have AK and it comes K72 im probably not going anywere. however, if i have KQ, i might be able to get away from it. in these sngs, its just not worth risking the chips with such marginal hands. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

With KQs AJs (providing there are plenty of people in the hand and you get to see the flop for 15 chips) the main value comes from when you flop really well (straight or flush) a few others in the hand are bound to have good hands they are willing to bet with.

Of course I realize this reasoning is a very slipperly slope, that can be used to include more and more very marginal hands. I have no plans to extend beyond what I currently play though. And the situation has to be right to play it. But up to now it has been a profitable play in level 1 and 2. They are without a doubt marginal plays though and it is possible it is a bad habit that has to go if I move up in levels.

[gasgod]

Unless I have won a pot, and have a bit of a chip cushion, I stay away from these in the early going. If I have t900 or more, I loosen up a bit in late position, but generally I follow Aleo's guide.

GG