Two River Bluffs [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

imported_leader

04-16-2005, 04:05 AM

No real reads on MP2 in the first hand and SB in the second except that they aren't playing every hand or seeing every showdown.

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, MP2 calls.

I would bet with any two here. All the better that I have the flush draw and RR Str8 draw.

Turn: (2.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

hmmm...I don't know what MP2 has but it beats my hand at the moment, but obviously I'm calling here.

River: (4.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
HarryJacks checks, Hero bets

I don't see my hand having any showdown value. So the only real questions is whether you think a fairly average player would fold a little more then 20% of the time here given the action.

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em Kill (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB has the kill button.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
6 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

This was a misclick. I intended to raise here. I think the hand plays out different if I had.

Flop: (2 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Now I'm really pissed I check PF. Anyway I bet. I'm not sure what he would check call here. It might have been one of those "I'll just keep him honest" calls.

Turn: (2 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

WTF? Now I really have no idea what he has. A J maybe, K /images/graemlins/spade.gif, middle pair? I figure my A outs are good alot here. So I have 11-12 outs, which is about 3-1. 

River: (4 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets

What? Now he checks. Should I just check though and hope A-high is good or do you think it's worth it to try to move him of of a 7, T, or low PP?

thesharpie

04-16-2005, 04:20 AM

First hand preflop I think is either a raise or fold situation. I fold personally.

None of them I bet the river. The first hand HarryJacks likely has something, and he's not going to fold for 1 more on the end. If I didn't have alot of the likely drawing possibilities I might be more inclinced to bet, but unless he was calling the flop with crap, and bluffing the turn, he probably isn't going anywhere.

The second hand SB might've caught onto your betting pattern and knows you like to bet the river when checked to. If this is the case he could feasibly call with any ace that beats you, and just fold everything you beat anyway.

Check.

sin808

04-16-2005, 04:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First hand preflop I think is either a raise or fold situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you want to raise?

lautzutao

04-16-2005, 04:38 AM

I'm just curious, why wouldn't you raise the turn with your first hand, seeing you have 15 outs coming on the river(OESD and 4-flush)?

imported_leader

04-16-2005, 04:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First hand preflop I think is either a raise or fold situation. I fold personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being that it's 1/2. I figured a couple more would come in behind. It didn't happen this time but I still don't hate my position because now I have the button. I wouldn't ever raise here because I don't want to be HU with 98 against MP2.

[ QUOTE ]
The second hand SB might've caught onto your betting pattern and knows you like to bet the river when checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt this. I check behind alot more then I bet when I have nothing on the river. I'm just looking to find those few cases where I'm missing the chance to pick up the pot with a bet.

[ QUOTE ]
If this is the case he could feasibly call with any ace that beats you, and just fold everything you beat anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK or AQ are the only A highs that beat me here. He could of course have a pair.

imported_leader

04-16-2005, 04:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just curious, why wouldn't you raise the turn with your first hand, seeing you have 15 outs coming on the river(OESD and 4-flush)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming MP2 has a T or J I have only 13 outs. That's 2.69-1. Assuming I have no fold equity here. I'd need 1-1 to break even on the raise because it is HU. Given that he checked the river, I wish I had raised the turn because he would likely have folded to the turn raise.

imported_leader

04-17-2005, 03:58 AM

Results:

Both folded. Hand two, I should have checked because he wasn't calling anything I bet, and I don't think he had anything that beat me. I still like my bet in hand 1.

thesharpie

04-17-2005, 07:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First hand preflop I think is either a raise or fold situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you want to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you keep nitpicking parts of my posts and taking them out of context?

I said I would fold this hand preflop, I just said I preferred raising to calling.

ArturiusX

04-17-2005, 07:37 AM

I'd just check behind in future.

sin808

04-17-2005, 08:20 AM

I have no idea who you even are, so if you feel picked on by me..well, that's your issue.

it has nothing to do with nitpicking (who are you again?). It's a question asking you to explain your reasoning. WHY do you think it's a raise or fold situation? WHY would you want to raise to try to isolate the EP limper with mid-suited connectors?

Sorry you see it as nitpicking, but I'd hope you'd be able to explain why you have the position you do. Maybe my take on it is wrong, so I'd like to know what your argument for raising is.

thesharpie

04-17-2005, 08:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea who you even are, so if you feel picked on by me..well, that's your issue.

it has nothing to do with nitpicking (who are you again?). It's a question asking you to explain your reasoning. WHY do you think it's a raise or fold situation? WHY would you want to raise to try to isolate the EP limper with mid-suited connectors?

Sorry you see it as nitpicking, but I'd hope you'd be able to explain why you have the position you do. Maybe my take on it is wrong, so I'd like to know what your argument for raising is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just remember you quoting a part out of one of my previous posts and just responding "Why?". Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The reason I prefer raising to calling is this is a hand that likes to be played with many opponents, and as there are not going to be many opponenets in the hand you're going to have to bluff when the flop misses you, so you might as well raise it preflop to set it up. When you have just 1 limper and you're in MP3 on a tight table it could easily be 3 handed, or worse raised behind you. So I'd rather be aggressive than have to check fold the flop once it misses me.

But why put yourself in either of these situations when you can just fold preflop..

kapw7

04-17-2005, 12:29 PM

I would raise both turns. These river bluffs dont work at HU. Especially in the first hand why would you think he will fold to your bet? Even a busted draw would probably call this bet with an overcard.

imported_leader

04-17-2005, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Especially in the first hand why would you think he will fold to your bet? Even a busted draw would probably call this bet with an overcard.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he wanted to call with A, K, or Q high, why didn't he just bet into me? If he has me read to the point were he's checking his better high card just to call me, then he really deserves the extra bet.