Need Objective Eyes: Am I Tilting? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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gaming_mouse

04-16-2005, 02:55 AM

I've been running bad and don't trust my decisions. I'd really appreciate a reality check.

In Hand 1, Villain was 15/10/4,4,6 over 300 hands. Can I fold the turn or river here?

Hand 2 Villain was similar but I had only 40 hands. I had also seen him pull a turn c/r bluff about 10 hands earlier. After he capped the turn, I figured he might have been trying for a free showdown, so I bet out again. How bad was that? Worse or better than calling his river raise?

----------- Hand 1 -----------

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (17.16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 22.16 BB

----------- Hand 2 -----------

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $4.
UTG calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.66 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

River: (13.66 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.66 BB

wrto4556

04-16-2005, 03:01 AM

You got uber carried away.

Hand 1: I want to fold on the flop, but 3-betting is correct, imo. Once it's capped, though, I think you can fold the turn UI.

Hand 2: Turn should go " hero bets, guy raises, hero calls".

gaming_mouse

04-16-2005, 03:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You got uber carried away.

Hand 1: I want to fold on the flop, but 3-betting is correct, imo. Once it's capped, though, I think you can fold the turn UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Villain could easily cap here on an OESD. How can you fold the turn UI?
[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: Turn should go " hero bets, guy raises, hero calls".

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Ok. This is clearly correct.

wrto4556

04-16-2005, 03:08 AM

You're right. Hand 1 you should fold when it's 2 to you on the turn. Raise if it's one.

admiralfluff

04-16-2005, 03:16 AM

hand 1 I play the same. Can't get away from it on the river for 1 more, and you definitely need to value bet here, I think.

hand 2, I'm calling down after the turn raise, unless I know this guy is a serious lag.

gaming_mouse

04-16-2005, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You're right. Hand 1 you should fold when it's 2 to you on the turn. Raise if it's one.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was one, and I did raise. So what about the river? check behind? Fold to his raise? At that point, I was thinking (desperately) that Villain might have been trying to push me off my overpair with with a pair and a missed draw.

KDawgCometh

04-16-2005, 03:25 AM

I think you went overboard on hand 1 for sure.The flop 3bet is solid, but your turn raise might be a little too much, and if your gonna play that river I think a checkcall is much more in order.

I know I couldn't get away from hand 2

ceskylev

04-16-2005, 04:34 AM

Hand 2:

Flop: Seems like there's no choice here.

Turn: I think you're cooked. Call me weak/tight, but i'm not even 3-betting this against a maniac. 44, 22, A4s, A2s are all reasonable hands for villain to have. HU, I'd call it down from here.

River: I don't understand your thinking regarding the free showdown. Villain isn't saving any bets by capping the turn and getting a free river. Once you 3-bet the turn, villain's cheapest route to a showdown is to call the 3-bet, then call if you bet on the river.

Even if villain doesn't have the straight, he could've capped the turn with other hands that beat you. Given the action, there's little of you having a 4. He could've capped with two pair or a baby set, not fearing the straight. I'm unlikely to bet. I'm less likely to call the raise.

I think you temporarily lost your head on this one and convinced yourself that an aggro player was trying to push you around. That's an easy thing to do. But even if you won this one, I think this line costs you in the long run.

wrto4556

04-16-2005, 05:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're right. Hand 1 you should fold when it's 2 to you on the turn. Raise if it's one.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was one, and I did raise. So what about the river? check behind? Fold to his raise? At that point, I was thinking (desperately) that Villain might have been trying to push me off my overpair with with a pair and a missed draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I clearly misread hand 1. My bad.

UTG+2 really screams strength. He raised preflop, but only called your bet. JJ-99 (with the action on the flop). I'm unclear if it's a value bet. With him just calling on the turn, I want to say JJ. So I would bet, and call the raise so I wont have to shoot myself.

Tough hand. Looks like he played you good with TT or 99.
KGB: *Pay the man his money*

HajiShirazu

04-16-2005, 06:33 AM

Hand 1 seems bad at first glance but I guess really I can't see anything wrong with it. I don't like the turn raise too much but it's a big pot and you might have the best hand.
Hand 2 just call down after the turn raise.

oreogod

04-16-2005, 07:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]

UTG+2 really screams strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

Understatment.

[ QUOTE ]

Looks like he played you good with TT or 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Only because OP didnt see it, Im hoping its because he was not in the best of moods. Really, look at the guys stats, look at what he did preflop, look at what he did on the flop and on...what do u do with TT? (or 99, but Im doubting it and AA is capping pre.)

oreogod

04-16-2005, 07:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2 Villain was similar but I had only 40 hands. I had also seen him pull a turn c/r bluff about 10 hands earlier. After he capped the turn, I figured he might have been trying for a free showdown, so I bet out again. How bad was that? Worse or better than calling his river raise?

----------- Hand 2 -----------

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $4.
UTG calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.66 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

River: (13.66 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.66 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Oy, I dont think this looks like a CR bluff and I doubt its for a free showdown. (u know if I was unsure instead of spending the extra bet to 3-bet the turn i would just check/call the river, costs the same -- but Im pretty aggresive, so...) Anyway, if u check the river he will bet. Doesnt look like a bluff or someone looking for a free showdown. I dont think he has an A4 unless he was just really afraid of his kicker, he probably has 22 or 44 so either the set or one card straight.

Check/call is the way to go.

einbert

04-16-2005, 07:34 AM

Hand 1 isn't tilt. It's not tilt when the hand is just difficult to play, even if you don't play it correctly. That's just a difficult hand.

I think you can safely fold the river, but it's close. I don't think a call is -EV by much.

Hand 2
The turn is pretty bad IMO but the river is worse. Check/call is pretty much your only option in my opinion.

This hand could definitely qualify as tilt.

oreogod

04-16-2005, 07:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 I play the same. Can't get away from it on the river for 1 more, and you definitely need to value bet here, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

U know, they are called value bets for a reasons and this is not one of them. I dont see how u think a bet on this river will show any long term profit. I dont see how u'd want to play it the same either.

Usually if they havent shown much agression in the hand and u plan to call a bet when u check the river then u should just bet yourself...this hand is a little different. U are for sure going to get popped on that river. I would call the turn, call the river. especially with those villian stats.