88

[cockandbull]

What to do...on the flop i was planning a check raise but once the button raises i thought about a raise to clean the pot up, but figured i'd go for overcalls and the hand *may* get raised behind me anyway. One of the many bad turn cards for me, so i check and hope to fill up (hopefully a club)

The players are all typical party 2/4 guys.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds.

River: (17.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

[brazilio]

I think you perhaps needed to be a little more passive here, perhaps a check/fold on the turn would be acceptable.

[cockandbull]

Its funny you said that...was thinking someone had the st8 on the flop and should have maybe folded there!!!

[MoreWineII]

God, you've got the entire field along for the ride - 3-bet the flop.

[cockandbull]

how many typical party players are calling a 3bet c/r? also if the whole field calls the raise i have some chance that i can trap then for more bets on the turn, should a safe card fall.

[Moozh]

Wow, you flopped top set and didn't bet or raise once. You're awesome!

[MoreWineII]

[ QUOTE ]
how many typical party players are calling a 3bet c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

At Party 2/4? Probably all of them.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you perhaps needed to be a little more passive here, perhaps a check/fold on the turn would be acceptable.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

CLEARY the correct play is to open fold the flop.

[CallMeIshmael]

3 bet the flop.

Most will call, and you have massive equity.

[cockandbull]

3 betting the flop would be the line i take the most often here...i was thinking about maybe trying to extract a little more by taking a fancy line.

the way the hand played out in my head before the cards fell was... top set check/raise the flop and trap the field for 2 then lead the turn. when the button raises i thought either three bet and hope to blow the field out and then make $$$ from one player and win the pot a hugh % of the time or flat call and hope that everyone comes along as i have a hugh equity and dont want people to fold. I want them to call and make a better second best hand and hopefully trap a few more people on the turn. Its a higher risk...but is it worth it?

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I want them to call and make a better second best hand and hopefully trap a few more people on the turn. Its a higher risk...but is it worth it?

[/ QUOTE ]

A problem here, is that check raising the turn = facing the field with 2 cold. So they are more likely to fold. (and the hands that are live to a set are calling anyway and probably not making much of a mistake either)

Also, on an 8 high flop there are a lot of overpair hands. These hands are more likely to call a 3-bet on the flop, than a raise on the turn. You can get a lot of money from dead hands on the flop IMO.

[Shillx]

Gotta bet that turn dude after coldcalling the flop. I really don't like the coldcall, but if you are gonna take the fishy line you need to fire right out on the next street. The idea behind the bet is that you will lead, everyone will call and then the button will raise allowing you to go for 3-bets. Check/raising the button (on a random 4th street card) with the top set isn't good as you are looking to build a pot. Again, no one is going to fold a good draw so you can't worry about them (and you only fold out hands that are drawing dead to a chop by check/raising).

After the turn check, I still might check/raise CO's bet even if he flips us a straight as no one is going to be folding any kind of good draw here. You can almost certainly count on a couple coldcallers with the way this board is setup. If 5 people play with your top set, you are in a much better spot then if you had say bottom set since someone holding a hand like 87s really kills your equity.

Brad

[KDawgCometh]

wow, the passivity of this hand has me shaking my head. As people have said you need to CR 3bet that flop. Why on earth are you gonna let any of those draws just pay two. YOur hand is strong but not strong enough to even try to get this fancy, IMO. Your play on the big streets will be eaiser if you 3bet that flop too. Some of the people in the middle might fold, but several will call the two cold. No flush draw is gonna fold there eve if they are facing three cold, that's just how party is. Make em pay and lead that turn dad gummit so you can get in a threebet. You'll have more then enough equity on your boat outs there to do that even if your up against a straight. Of course you always could just fold the flop if your pattern mapper is telling you that you'll lose /images/graemlins/smile.gif j/k, three bet that puppy and don't look back

[cockandbull]

Alright dude,

Hows things? You pretty much hit the nail on the head with how i would "normally" play the hand, guess i need a hand like this every now and then to knock me back into shape.

Take care, i've still got you in my buddy list which i why i havent bumped into you at the tables. Hope to keep it that way/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Harry

[tolbiny]

If you can fold this flop you are far to advanced to be playing small stakes- borrow 10 g's and go win the WSOP

[tolbiny]

Hell, at party 2/4 the people who folded preflop are probably emailing party support right now trying to get back their cards after the three bet.

[sthief09]

in all seriousness, I'd 3-bet preflop when it comes back to you. and I'd take much greater measures to protect my hand, especially on the turn when there are 3 people behind you

[cockandbull]

[ QUOTE ]
in all seriousness, I'd 3-bet preflop when it comes back to you

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure i've heard this before, but have never really understood the logic behind 3 betting preflop with a mid-pair in ep. Would you mind explaining this?