abbreviations!

[hypermegachi]

it's been a while since i've been browsing the HUSH forum, and i've come across some new terms i haven't seen before. just as a reference, good idea to have all the common terms listed in a thread.

SOP = standard operation procedure
TOP = fundamental theorem of poker

TOP confused me a lot when naphand was talking TOP this and TOP that and i'm like wtf theory of poker or what??? then i checked the 2+2 abbreviations, and everything he said made sense.

now i found another thread with gaybetting. wtf? i only assume that means a bet outta no where for no good reason, hence, homosexual.

[waffle]

You are in position and raise your opponent's flop bet. He calls. The turn comes, and your opponent bets into you. This is a 'gaybet' or a 'stop n go'.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
You are in position and raise your opponent's flop bet. He calls. The turn comes, and your opponent bets into you. This is a 'gaybet' or a 'stop n go'.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is certainly both a "gaybet" and a "stop n go", but "gaybet" is more general:

You raise preflop, the BB calls. He checks the flop, you bet, he calls. Turn card comes, he bets. This is not a "stop n go" but it is most certainly a "gaybet". There's a recent thread describing what these generally mean (i.e., strength vs weakness), if you're interested.

[krishanleong]

gaybet and stop and go are not the same thing.

Krishan

[rory]

Why don't we call this a bet out of nowhere rather than using a term that may be offensive to other people? It also makes the people using the term sound like they are in 8th grade.

[rory]

The other problem with the term is that it is not neutral. I do that sort of bet all of the time as a part of my strategy. Assigning a judgement to it is bad-- all poker lines and actions should have neutral connotations, so that we do not have to fight through artificial perceptions about what is good and bad before we find what is correct.

[Roy6]

someone define stop and go pls

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
The other problem with the term is that it is not neutral. I do that sort of bet all of the time as a part of my strategy. Assigning a judgement to it is bad-- all poker lines and actions should have neutral connotations, so that we do not have to fight through artificial perceptions about what is good and bad before we find what is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit it. I gaybet.

I'm amused by the term, and it's a lot shorter than "bet out of nowhere" -- much easier to type "gaybet" into my notes. Suggestions as to a replacement?

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
someone define stop and go pls

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone just did. Someone bets, gets raised, calls, and on the next street bets out.

[naphand]

SnG

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
SnG

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not really a 'stop n go' if they never started, is it?

[Wynton]

My friend suggests we call it a "grrbet."

But as the person who started that other thread asking about "gaybet," I must comment that I find it pretty surprising, at this stage of the poker/internet game, that nicknames have not been given to each, precise type of bet or betting sequence. After all, look at all the nicknames given to the starting hands.

So, let the nicknaming begin in earnest!

[krishanleong]

grrbet it is!!

Krishan

[Jeff W]

What happened to that "gaybet" thread? It seems to have disappeared.

We can't call it a "grrbet." The term gaybet is already accepted in the common parlance.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to that "gaybet" thread? It seems to have disappeared.

We can't call it a "grrbet." The term gaybet is already accepted in the common parlance.

[/ QUOTE ]

People will figure it out. A newt was once called an ewt after all.

Krishan

[Jeff W]

Who calls an ewt a newt?

[Wynton]

That's a good question. Where did that thread go? I just checked my favorite list and it's not there either.

[Grisgra]

Bizarre . . . looks like the "What is a gaybet?" thread has been deleted.

[krishanleong]

An old english teacher told me newts were once ewts and over time the language shifted to call the newt.

Krishan

[Wynton]

I've confirmed the thread has been extinguished. I had an old link to it, and when I clicked, was told it's no longer there.

Maybe we imagined the whole thing?

[Jeff W]

That is true. My post was a joke.

Language evolves naturally. You can't force it by changing a wonderfully expressive term like "gaybet" to "grrbet".

[krishanleong]

Sure you can, what you've never eaten "Freedon Fries"!! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Krishan

Actually I thought the term was wonderfully expressive but after a week of use it's pretty mundane. And since I believe strongly in gay rights I'm open to changing it to grrbet.

[rory]

What if it was called a jewbet?

[Jeff W]

Freedom Fries haven't replaced French Fries and they never will.

Gaybet: An amount or object risked in a wager characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement.

Like I said, wonderfully expressive. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jeff W]

Rory,

I will have to rethink my stance on gaybet. When I grew up, the term "gay" was a generic insult and I still hear it quite often in College, even though I go to one of the most liberal colleges in the U.S.

I will try to minimize my pejorative use of "gay". I honestly don't want to be hurtful or insulting to gays, as they have a tough enough lot already.

-Jeff

[rory]

At one point it was common parlance to refer to black people and asian people and jewish people and irish people and catholic people and all of that by various pejorative terms. Gay people are just the current en-vogue group. Nobody thinks anything of it because it is so common, but that is the whole problem.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
What if it was called a jewbet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one considering changing "value bet" to "jewbet" now?

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If I didn't think that 90%+ of twoplustwo'ers, due to their typical age and intelligence level, weren't actually quite tolerant/accepting of homosexuality, I think I'd be more concerned.

But hey, if we can come up with an acceptable synonym, it's probably early enough that we can stop the meme in question. (Or whatever you want to call it.)

Personally, I think "gaybet" is perfect because

1) It's a move often done by poor players, meaning that the bet is kind of stupid (matching up with the common slang of "gay" = "stupid"

2) BUT it's also a move often made by strong players, and has quite a different meaning in those cases (matching up with the fact that upon further consideration/thought, being gay isn't "stupid" at all).

Weak players, gaybets usually mean stupid.
Strong players, gaybets can mean anything, definitely requires more thought and consideration.

It's an interesting parallel (to the unwashed masses, gay=bad, to the smarter/more open folks, "gay" is just an adjective) -- and MUCH better than we get with most slang. Good luck coming up with a term as fitting.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
"gay" = "stupid"

[/ QUOTE ]

Common Gris, this is the problem. People use to use nigger because it meant stupid also. The problem is the root of gay as a pejorative term comes from persecuting a group of people for their sexual orientation. Nigger from their race. Both are bad.

Grrbet actually makes a little sense because these bets are hard to read and vex us a little.

Krishan

[sqvirrel]

If you have to invest five paragraphs explaining how a pejorative isn't a pejorative then you need to consider that the casual reader won't see it that way.

[Wynton]

Just because someone is willing to explain something, doesn't mean that the average person needs the explanation.

Are you seriously denying that the term gaybet could reasonably be construed as offensive?

[J.R.]

I dunno, gay more commonly refers to an alleged "lack of masculinity" with respect to any number of endeavors or choices. Well, at least when my friends use gay that is what they mean/intend. Its not a pejorative term thrown at people to imply a sexual oreintation that is homosexual. That term would be "[censored]" and other much less endearing stuff.

Gay is more akin to the pejorative way of refering to something/some action that might otherwise be less offensively be referred to as "meterosexual" or "effeminate". Its still perjorative, but not regarding sexual oreintation. When somebody says "that's gay", I don't think homosexual, I think weak or unmasculine or emotional or effeminate or passive or just plain stupid etc.


Maybe that is just perpetuating a unfounded stereotype regarding "homosexuals" and the "homosexual lifestyle" that should not be tolerated or allowed, in much the same way that "jew" didn't refer to jewish people but to one who was cheap, and "cheapness" is/was an unfounded sterotype about jewish peoples.

But then again popular "gay/homosexual" culture does take some measure of pride in its dismissal of social norms cenetered around supposedly "masculine" beliefs and attitudes. Wasn't the now played out queer eye in large part all about the celebration of a gay or "unmasculine" lifestyle, while jewish people didn't celebrate their cheapnesss, for example.

That's probabaly missing the point though, as "gay" is meant as an inult when used to refer to someone or something as gay, and hurful intent is what counts. Even if you are not actually intending to call them homosexual, you are intending (I think) to insult or hurt them because they allegedly have "homosexual-like traits". And even though homosexuals refer to themselves as gay and fight for gay and lesbian rights, they are not doing so in an unflattering manner, while pointing out someone "gaybetting" isn't exactly a compliment regarding their playing style.

i dunno, i think i may have convinced myself of the oposite of what i thought when i started typing this, but typing "gaybetting" is fun, even if it is wrong. I'll stop

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have to invest five paragraphs explaining how a pejorative isn't a pejorative then you need to consider that the casual reader won't see it that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You gotta admit, it was one helluva explanation though!

And nobody liked my jewbet joke? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

See the new thread re gaybetting or grrbetting or whatever the hell we end up calling it . . . I have no problem with the term, but like I said, it'd be nice to have one where we can post on how to deal with it without getting that post deleted.

[J.R.]

your reading comprehension skills sux

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
your reading comprehension skills sux

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
typing "gaybetting" is fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but I'm going to stop for the good of the world, my mom and starving children in Africa.

Krishan

[sqvirrel]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you seriously denying that the term gaybet could reasonably be construed as offensive?

[/ QUOTE ]

What have you been smoking? I'm saying exactly the opposite. If someone has to take a bunch of time explaining why something isn't offensive then it probably is.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you seriously denying that the term gaybet could reasonably be construed as offensive?

[/ QUOTE ]

What have you been smoking? I'm saying exactly the opposite. If someone has to take a bunch of time explaining why something isn't offensive then it probably is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said it wasn't offensive to some . . . I said that it was a wonderfully descriptive term that parallels in an unexpected way the way the word "gay" is actually used in real life. Sorry, but I just think that's cool.

[Wynton]

Oops, sorry. Everyone's right. My reading comprehension sucks. Carry on.

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll stop

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you should, unless you want to.

[TMFS9]

And we just had a thread complimenting the forum for how good it was and the amount of constructive poker posts then we have this thread /images/graemlins/grin.gif. Would the term homobet be less abrasive, what about queerbet (queer would actually have a closer meaning than gay)?

[hypermegachi]

oh man, we should make a list of terms for

(insert sexual word)bet

[juggernaut]

I gaybet sometimes when I think the PFR is weak but I'm unsure about checkraising the turn. I think there's a similar action/phrase for this from the NL world: probe bet.

As has been mentioned, both weak and strong players occasionally do this, so maybe probe bet gives the weak players too much credit. What if it were something in between....like spybet?