Mistake to raise flop

[mojobluesman]

Mistake to raise flop?

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6 BB

[FlopMe]

I'll let the button steal my small blind here so I'm folding preflop. I'm also switching tables if there's this much folding preflop.

[teajay]

EDIT: I totally missed the steal attempt, must be sleeping.
I'd still bet, but rather 3-bet a raise on the flop.

Bah! This whole post is a blunder.

Travis

[@bsolute_luck]

my guess...read dependent. he could have been on a steal attempt. i think you found out what you needed on the flop with the c/r. looks good to me.

[PokerProdigy]

I'd probably fold preflop, but it's probably a close decision either way. If faced with a raise I usually just call with a pair in the SB if there is one person who cold called the raise, or if there was a few limpers before the raiser. But once this flop came you should DEFINITELY fold. Also, if you don't know how to handle a situation like this, then thats all the more reason to fold preflop in these types of situations.

[KaiShin]

Reads are mandatory here. If you think he's on a steal attempt, you should 3-bet him PF and lead the flop. The way you played it, the turn fold is fine against an average opponent.

Did UTG open-fold his posted blind or something?

[PokerProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads are mandatory here. If you think he's on a steal attempt, you should 3-bet him PF and lead the flop. The way you played it, the turn fold is fine against an average opponent.

Did UTG open-fold his posted SB or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is VERY TRUE.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads are mandatory here. If you think he's on a steal attempt, you should 3-bet him PF and lead the flop. The way you played it, the turn fold is fine against an average opponent.

Did UTG open-fold his posted blind or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought about 3-betting PRF and leading the flop too, but i decided against it because of position. if villain has an A, he could just call down and raise on the river.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll let the button steal my small blind here so I'm folding preflop. I'm also switching tables if there's this much folding preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That absolutely sucks. 3-bet this preflop.

BTW, stop posting so many threads. I see several on the front page.

[Entity]

Folding this preflop sucks. Bigtime.

[adsman]

Dude, you've posted 4 hands in like 10 minutes. This is not cool. We've got a little unofficial rule here to stop the forum getting clogged up. Post one hand for every 5 responses you make to other peoples post. Just to let you know. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Trix]

Anyone who folds preflop is giving up way too much.

3bet to get the big blind out, take control of the hand and get more money in while ahead.

I guess postflop is fine as he can have whatever broadway or whatever pair till he 3bets, but your life would have been easier if you just 3bet it preflop.

Dont coldcall in the SB against a steal unless you have a good reason for it.

[FlopMe]

3-bet with no reads? If I'm raised by mr. passive with 1% PFR stat over 500 hands, I'm not playing 88 unless there's some cold-callers after him.

I always pretend an unknown is mr. passive until I have enough hands to prove myself wrong.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet with no reads? If I'm raised by mr. passive with 1% PRF over 500 hands, I'm not playing 88 unless there's some cold-callers after him.

I always pretend an unknown is mr. passive until I have enough hands to prove myself wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a huge leak in your game. An openraise from the Button is far less likely to be a big hand than anything else here. You should be 3-betting any playable hand here, and 88 is a HUGE hand in this situation.

Rob

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet with no reads? If I'm raised by mr. passive with 1% PFR stat over 500 hands, I'm not playing 88 unless there's some cold-callers after him.

I always pretend an unknown is mr. passive until I have enough hands to prove myself wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

he could be playing any old hand from Button. suited connectors, small PP, even some off suited stuff. you already have a pair. HU that is a strong hand.

[KaiShin]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought about 3-betting PRF and leading the flop too, but i decided against it because of position. if villain has an A, he could just call down and raise on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
88 is going to be favored the vast majority of the time against essentially a random hand from the Button. Sure if Button has an A he could just call down, but the times he doesn't have an A will far outnumber the times he does. We must 3-bet this for value.

I know if I were Button in this situation, my raising standards would be wide open. Maybe not quite any 2 cards, but close.

[mojobluesman]

If I had 3-bet and he called. Should I then lead out on the flop?

If so, what do I do if he raises?

The problem was that I thought there was a good chance he was on a steal. That's why I checkraised the flop. I thought I was winning. However, when he came back over me, figured I may be looking at an A. Though he also could have had a pair like me (just lower). Didn't know what to do but assumed the A.

[KaiShin]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had 3-bet and he called. Should I then lead out on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
If so, what do I do if he raises?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call and reevaluate on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem was that I thought there was a good chance he was on a steal. That's why I checkraised the flop. I thought I was winning. However, when he came back over me, figured I may be looking at an A. Though he also could have had a pair like me (just lower). Didn't know what to do but assumed the A.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well we already dealt with what you should have done before the flop. After villain 3-bets the flop, you have to rely on your reads to decide whether or not to call it down. Against most opponents, I think a fold is fine.

[Trix]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had 3-bet and he called. Should I then lead out on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, including AKQ and 882, just lead anything.

[ QUOTE ]
If so, what do I do if he raises?


[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the board and what your read is. On this board at this limit I would probably call and fold the turn as people generally aren´t that aggressive if I remember right.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem was that I thought there was a good chance he was on a steal. That's why I checkraised the flop. I thought I was winning. However, when he came back over me, figured I may be looking at an A. Though he also could have had a pair like me (just lower). Didn't know what to do but assumed the A.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to try and estimate how often he has either holding and then decide whether or not to call down depending on the odds.

Pot is 11 bets when he 3bets your check-raise, so you are getting 16:5 or 13:5 if he doesnt bluff the river, on a calldown, which means you have to be good around 25% to make it.

[mojobluesman]

Given the way I played it pre-flop (I understand now I should have 3-bet), should I have folded to the flop re-raise. I guess it dosn't make sense to call that raise if I'm only going to see the turn and fold without another 8.

[mojobluesman]

Thanks. Thinking out the odds to call down helped.

[HajiShirazu]

3-bet preflop every time.
Playing it this way is fine because if he doesn't have an ace he will usually fold. But fold to the 3-bet.

[MrEngenic]

I think so unless you have a good read that he is bluffing. When you are raised it's a mistake calling. You should usually call a raise on the flop if you bet even if you plan to release on the turn. It has to be close though, this isn't. Assuming he is bluffing he probably has at least two overcards which has 6 outs against you. That combined with that you could draw to 2 outs if he has an overpair or an A makes this an easy fold when 3-bet.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll let the button steal my small blind here so I'm folding preflop. I'm also switching tables if there's this much folding preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why avoid learning to drive in the wet, you've got to do it someday?

No way in a million years should you fold pocket 8s. Heads up you're doing fantastic against a stealers likely range of hands.

[istewart]

Entity has skill to determine EV of 88, probnably so.