post, get junk, flop middle pair, what next?

[sin808]

First hand at the table. It's been open for awhile so I've got stats on everyone, but no notes. MP3 is a weak tight rock, SB and BB are both slightly loose and passive.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero...

[thesharpie]

Either raise or fold. I vote fold as the pot's small, and MP3 very likely has you beaten.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Either raise or fold. I vote fold as the pot's small, and MP3 very likely has you beaten.

[/ QUOTE ]

[McGahee]

Hero folds his weak drawing 5 outer in a small pot.

[ArturiusX]

Pots a bit to small for me.

The jack kicker isn't quite good enough either. I'd like to think I'd have the best hand on the flop to raise this, but it's marginal, the pot size seals the fold for me.

[jskills]

Pot is small, so you could easily fold. But if you're looking to play ...

Raise. Hopefully the other 3 who checked will fold to two bets.

If he does not reraise you on the flop, lead at the turn no matter what, he just might fold. If you encounter any resistance, you can consider folding of course.

[sin808]

why do you believe mp3 has me beaten? he open limped in mp3. what range of hands do you put him on to assume I'm behind here?

[UncleSalty]

I wuold raise to try and get HU w/ MP3. He's likely betting w/ overcards to try and steal the button. If you get 3-bet I would call and then check/fold the turn UI.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 is a weak tight rock

[/ QUOTE ]

i raise the flop &amp; take it from there.

[wyoak]

i'd fold because small pots are boring, but if you want to play definitely raise here, then turn a 7 and river a jack. poker is so easy.

[madscratch]

Tho old me would call the flop bet, but I think that's the wrong thing to do. I'd probably fold with the tiny pot.

[sin808]

[ QUOTE ]
I wuold raise to try and get HU w/ MP3. He's likely betting w/ overcards to try and steal the button. If you get 3-bet I would call and then check/fold the turn UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thought and intention as well, and this was what happened:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. Hero wins 4 BB. </font>

This isn't a play I would normally make, but I had a pretty good idea I'd be able to get HU w/MP3 and that he more than likely missed that flop.

[Felipe]

blindpost:

since the bettor is weak tight, i think he thinks he has the best hand, and/or wants to steal the pot. Maybe he's read a few books and bets to gain information. i've heard (but have not gathered from experience) that 1/2 at party is not like .5/1 at party (ie tougher). Because of that, i would tend to fold. But I'm an aggressive player, and despite the small pot, i've contributed money to it. I'll raise it, and take it from there. If i'm 3 bet, i call, and fold to a bet on 4th street. If he just calls my raise on the flop, i bet the turn, if check raised, i let it go immediately. I wouldn't bet or call on the river - just a waste. I always see callers-under-the-bed with decent hands better than middle pair at the river.....

any thing i miss?

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 is a weak tight rock

[/ QUOTE ]

What does "weak tight rock" mean to you?

[sin808]

plays less than 10% of his hands, raises only big PP and big cards (~2%), will fold to aggression if he missed and even if he has a small piece of the board (middle/bottom pair). Basically he's a nut peddler.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
plays less than 10% of his hands, raises only big PP and big cards (~2%), will fold to aggression if he missed and even if he has a small piece of the board (middle/bottom pair). Basically he's a nut peddler.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you want to raise him with a weak hand? Either your play is bad, or your read is bad.

[sin808]

what is your reasoning for this?

He likely missed this flop and is making what is probably a positional bet to A. buy the button, B. clean up outs, C. maybe try to buy the pot right here. I had put him on something like KQo, KJo, maybe AJo, or similar. If my read on him is correct he will either call and check/fold the turn, or re-raise (at which point I check/fold the turn). I'm also pretty confident he folds a 4 or a 7 here as well. I have position on him, probably the best hand, and believe he will fold a better hand here. I posted and checked, he could easily believe I hold 56 as well, especially since he's the type likely to see monsters under the bed.

[no1super2001]

grunching...

Raise or fold. With 5 bets in the pot, I fold.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
what is your reasoning for this?

He likely missed this flop and is making what is probably a positional bet to A. buy the button, B. clean up outs, C. maybe try to buy the pot right here. I had put him on something like KQo, KJo, maybe AJo, or similar. If my read on him is correct he will either call and check/fold the turn, or re-raise (at which point I check/fold the turn). I'm also pretty confident he folds a 4 or a 7 here as well. I have position on him, probably the best hand, and believe he will fold a better hand here. I posted and checked, he could easily believe I hold 56 as well, especially since he's the type likely to see monsters under the bed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so "weak-tight rock" to you includes a player willing to bet into a field of 4 opponents with a weak draw as a "position" bet. That's not really a "nut peddler" in my book, but as long as you know what you're talking about, it's fine.

[sin808]

just because someone is weak tight doesn't preclude them from betting overcards if they think their hand is best. At least from my experience ( i used to be horribly weak-tight). maybe my use of the term was incorrect and too broadly applied in this instance, if so I stand corrected and apologize.

[aK13]

Fold.

[sin808]

[ QUOTE ]
he open limped in mp3.

[/ QUOTE ] /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[censored] I'm an idiot...I should re-read my hands before replying. I can't believe no one called this out.

[string4]

*other responses unread, critique welcome*

My vote here is to raise. My raise here would drive other competing middle/low pairs out and might get me heads up w/ MP3. If MP3 reraises, i can fold and if he calls the move might get me a free card on the turn, or set me up well for other aggressive play if my J hits or another worthy scare card drops. My second choice would be folding, i don't think calling would help at all since you would probably wind up w/ multway pot and no momentum to work w/ MP3

[waynethetrain]

I would either raise to try to get the others to fold and get myself heads up against the bettor or fold. The only bad option is calling.

In this case I would raise.

I think it's way more likely you are ahead than behind because he didn't raise pre-flop (not likely to have a bigger pair) and there just aren't all that many playable hands with an 8 in them to think you are behind considering his bet came after 3 checks.

Raise and see what he does.