View Full Version : Small blind, short stack, ITM
Phoenix1010
04-15-2005, 05:28 AM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Button (t5585)
Hero (t805)
BB (t1610)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero?
Push or fold, and why?
gasgod
04-15-2005, 05:49 AM
Push. The only position that you have significant FE is in the SB. If you concede this one your position three hands from now will be weaker. If you push, BB can call only if he is willing to swap places with you, chipwise.
JMO, and it's not an expert one.
GG
yanicehand
04-15-2005, 05:58 AM
standard push, i believe.
Aces 'n Eights
04-15-2005, 09:32 AM
I have to disagree with the other 2 replys. I would fold here. The "average" hand is Q7. You are WELL below that. Knowing that your "desperate" if the BB has any kind of a hand, you will get called and be way behind. You've got 2 more chances to get a better hand than 93o to make your stand with.
A8
GtrHtr
04-15-2005, 09:48 AM
Push. This, to my thinking, is worth trying to steal when the button folds. If you get called, oh well.
The only question I would have is if the BB has been defending his blinds to this point. You should have a pretty good feel for his play in these situations by now and should know how to play this from your read.
Aces 'n Eights
04-15-2005, 10:46 AM
Forgot to add this to my last reply. Here's a chart that was created that shows the expected value of every single hand against a "random hand"
http://www.jazbo.com/poker/huholdem.html
[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with the other 2 replys. I would fold here. The "average" hand is Q7. You are WELL below that. Knowing that your "desperate" if the BB has any kind of a hand, you will get called and be way behind. You've got 2 more chances to get a better hand than 93o to make your stand with.
A8
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think your hand is a consideration here (well, it is but it's not much). If BB is a good player, he won't call with "any kind of hand" like QJ or 22 simply because of his chip position. He's only got 2x more chips than hero, 1 double up will put him in the short stack. As someone said earlier, BB will only call if he's willing to switch chip positions with you.
GtrHtr
04-15-2005, 10:59 AM
Could you explain why you think your hand matters at this point?
SonicReducer
04-15-2005, 11:05 AM
If I was BB her and you pushed, I'd see it as an attempt to steal and I would put you all in unless I had a really bad hand.
[ QUOTE ]
If I was BB her and you pushed, I'd see it as an attempt to steal and I would put you all in unless I had a really bad hand.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you willing to become the short stack with a hand like KT or QJ, which isn't a "really bad hand"?
SonicReducer
04-15-2005, 11:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Are you willing to become the short stack with a hand like KT or QJ, which isn't a "really bad hand"?
[/ QUOTE ]
Three handed and one fold, I take my chances with KT or QJ, yeah.
Aces 'n Eights
04-15-2005, 11:31 AM
Your right in that something like KT or QJ is not a "really bad hand". Actually, 3 handed it's quite good. Already ITM, and the CL with almost 5600 in chips, you bet I'm gonna try and increase my stack with a hand like that, esp if I CAN'T go bust if I lost. I agree that the hand doesn't matter as much anymore, but personally, I'd rather have a hand that can at least somewhat "compete" if my steal attempt is called. According to the chart 93o has an expectation of only 40% against a random hand. There are only 25 out of 169 distinct hands that are worse off then that. With 2 more hands to come odds are 1 will be better (have a better expectation) than 93o - JMHO of course
A8
Vee Quiva
04-15-2005, 11:41 AM
You can search for other posts in this forum about pushing from the small blind. To summarize, if the BB is a reasonable player or even a little loose, your EV is positive if you push. The big reason is that your fold equity is still high at 4 times the BB.
Plus at 800 you are going to need to get lucky anyways. You might as well make a stand now while you're in position to steal.
[ QUOTE ]
Your right in that something like KT or QJ is not a "really bad hand". Actually, 3 handed it's quite good. Already ITM, and the CL with almost 5600 in chips, you bet I'm gonna try and increase my stack with a hand like that, esp if I CAN'T go bust if I lost. I agree that the hand doesn't matter as much anymore, but personally, I'd rather have a hand that can at least somewhat "compete" if my steal attempt is called. According to the chart 93o has an expectation of only 40% against a random hand. There are only 25 out of 169 distinct hands that are worse off then that. With 2 more hands to come odds are 1 will be better (have a better expectation) than 93o - JMHO of course
A8
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, your points are taken. If I were in that situation, I might even have auto-fold checked, but here's something else to think about.
Villian only has 2x the hero's stack, that makes him less likely to call unless he's uber loose. Plus, it's not like hero is completing from SB and Villian can push with folding equity.
If Hero folds here, and then steals on the next 2 hands, he'll just be right back to where he was before.
One other consideration is that hero's cards are probably MORE likely to be live if called.
Phoenix1010
04-15-2005, 04:21 PM
Villain was quite loose, I should have included that. So loose that he actually called me in this hand with K3o, which I knew he would do. Does that change anyone's answer?
Phoenix1010
04-15-2005, 04:23 PM
Wow... I'd venture to guess that Vee Quiva's avatar won't be lasting long, but I'll enjoy it while it's here.
[ QUOTE ]
Villain was quite loose, I should have included that. So loose that he actually called me in this hand with K3o, which I knew he would do. Does that change anyone's answer?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. If BB is uberloose, then FE is little to none, and changes the answer.
Phoenix1010
04-15-2005, 05:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Yes. If BB is uberloose, then FE is little to none, and changes the answer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Changes it to a fold? Why?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes. If BB is uberloose, then FE is little to none, and changes the answer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Changes it to a fold? Why?
[/ QUOTE ]
One of the reasons pushing here was recommended is because of the Gap Concept. Villain normally will be playing tighter (even if we're already in the money) and we can take advantage of it by forcing him to a decision pre-flop, that is he can't see a flop for free.
If villain is uber loose though, then 93 is really not the hand you want to take a stand with. One of the ways to win the hand, i.e. villain folding, is totally gone. It's almost the same concept as hopelessly bluffing a calling station.
If you have ZERO folding equity here, you HAVE to win a hand, and like others pointed out, 93 isn't the hand to do it.
That's my opinion anyways.
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.