Flush got there now what?

[pistol78]

Live 6/12 Table is pretty passive ABC type. Have not been here long but have not seen anyone get out of line.

2 villains involved in this hand only seeem to bet when they have something

Hero is on the Button with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Vilain 1 calls ,3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, Villain 2 checks.

(7sb) FLop Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif


Villain 2 checks, Villain 1 bets 3 of us call, including Villain 2

(6.5BB)Turn 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif All Check

(6.5BB) River K /images/graemlins/club.gif
Villain 2 immediatly bets, and Villain 1 Immediatly raises, all fold to Hero who does ???

[Nick Royale]

It seems to me like villains changed seats. i'm not sure how many caller there were on the flop before you acted, but raising might be an option. You realise you should act between villain 1 and 2. Did he act out of order. I'm confused. Should the hand look like this:


[ QUOTE ]
Hero is on the Button with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Vilain 1 calls ,3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, Villain 2 checks.

(7sb) FLop Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Villain 2 checks, Villain 1 bets, 2 calls, Hero calls, Villain 2 calls

(6.5BB)Turn 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif All Check

(6.5BB) River K /images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain 2 immediatly bets, and Villain 1 Immediatly raises, all fold to Hero who does ???

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I'm raising the flop and go for an overcall on the river.

[Piiop]

Yeah, the action is kind of messed up in this hand.

Either way, raise the flop.

[pistol78]

Sorry it is fixed. What do I do on the river?

[Piiop]

It's still not right. Villain 2 can't check the flop after Villain 1 bets. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I would call the river.

[Nick Royale]

Villain 2 could have missed his check/raise on the turn with a straight (or even, though relatively unlikely, flopped set). If you 3-bet, villain 1 will often fold and villain 2 only cap you with a flush. Which is very likely to be higher than yours. By 3-betting you lose 2 when behind and gain 1 when ahead. By calling you most often gain 1 when ahead and lose 1 when behind. So given the reads of the players I would probably go for an overcall.

I'm not sure about this one, though. Since villain 1 might call your raise and villain 2, since he posted in BB, might have a lower flush raising might be correct. Also there's a lot more hand villain 2 will raise here. Like K2 K3 KQ and other hands with which he intended to c/r the turn with. I'm leaning towards a 3-bet now /images/graemlins/smile.gif

EDIT: Add to that villain should be raising a flush draw on the flop.

[pistol78]

Villain 2 is the BB and Villain 1 is in EP

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
It's still not right. Villain 2 can't check the flop after Villain 1 bets. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
He don't.

[pistol78]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain 2 could have missed his check/raise on the turn with a straight

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good reasoning, this concept only dawned on me3 hours later.

So your options are
1. Calling
2. 3betting
Do you find a fold somewhere?

[Piiop]

I agree with your first paragraph.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about this one, though. Since villain 1 might call your raise and villain 2, since he posted in BB, might have a lower flush raising might be correct. Also there's a lot more hand villain 2 will raise here. Like K2 K3 KQ and other hands with which he intended to c/r the turn with. I'm leaning towards a 3-bet now

EDIT: Add to that villain should be raising a flush draw on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't too many lower flushes either villain could have. I think a 3-bet will lose V2 almost all the time. I'm also wondering what V1 checks the turn and raises the river with.

(Villain 1 and Villain 2 is confusing me)

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you find a fold somewhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
So your options are
1. Calling
2. 3betting
Do you find a fold somewhere?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, and i do believe the EV between 3-betting and calling is pretty slim.

[pistol78]

Thanks,

[HajiShirazu]

I think going for the overcall is better here.

[elindauer]

With the turn getting checked to you, you should already be contemplating the possibility that you are drawing dead. When the flush gets there and it's instantly 2 cold, it should be clear that 3-betting is right out. If you choose to play, you call and go for the overcall.

Should you call? Are you good 20% of the time? Boy, I don't know. These guys sure are showing strength. I mean, there are still two players to act when the second villain raises. What does he think everybody else is playing? Did he just not notice that everyone seemed to be drawing and the major draw just arrived? It's hard to imagine the thought process of someone who raises here without clubs.

You mention that the table has been pretty passive and ABC too. I think you should lay it down.

Good luck.
Eric