Trying not to lose my shirt with AK

[Perseus]

Villian was 24/5 no other reads

good laydown? I am losing a ton with AK because I am going too far...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, CO folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[JDErickson]

Looks fine to me.

[Piiop]

You don't have to bet the flop.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have to bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[rmarotti]

This is fine.

[me454555]

Why are you betting the flop into 3 people on a draw heavy board w/1 card in playing range? Seems like your going to get called a lot here and raised often too. I'm checking here. I might be inclined to take one off if I'm closing the action but I really don't like my hand on this flop.

[Perseus]

Ok. Is this better?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB

[Demana]

This seems like the kind of flop that you would want to bet with AK.

[Perseus]

So you're saying the difference between the two is that in hand one i check because 2 to a flush shows and instead of a 2 you have a 6, putting out a possibility of a rare straight draw.

Doesn't seem like that much of a difference. Am I wrong? Others agree?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't have to bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
But betting isn't bad at all.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the difference between the two is that in hand one i check because 2 to a flush shows and instead of a 2 you have a 6, putting out a possibility of a rare straight draw.

Doesn't seem like that much of a difference. Am I wrong? Others agree?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would bet both, but yes the 2nd is easy and the 1st is marginal.

The straight ain't that rare. And people play 8's more often than 2's. And the possible flushdraw is also a factor.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the difference between the two is that in hand one i check because 2 to a flush shows and instead of a 2 you have a 6, putting out a possibility of a rare straight draw.

Doesn't seem like that much of a difference. Am I wrong? Others agree?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would bet both, but yes the 2nd is easy and the 1st is marginal.

The straight ain't that rare. And people play 8's more often than 2's. And the possible flushdraw is also a factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. If u bet the 1st hand be prepared to have it come back to u raised. the J, flush draw, and a gutshot could all be out there. If its not raised, there will be some callers hanging on for sure to the end (most of the time).

2nd hand bet that flop, bet the turn. U probably pick up the pot.

Read the Overcards section of SSHE again, he describes it pretty well and goes into more detail of when to check and what flops to bet. But yes, the 1st hand is pretty draw heavy and will probably come back to u raised (most of the times because the flush draw) -- the 2nd hand u can probably pick up pretty easy, if u get raised on the Turn of the 2nd hand, Id fold then.

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
But betting isn't bad at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it kind of is. It is very bad if he bets this spot every time.

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the difference between the two is that in hand one i check because 2 to a flush shows and instead of a 2 you have a 6, putting out a possibility of a rare straight draw.

Doesn't seem like that much of a difference. Am I wrong? Others agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, in each hand how often do you think you have the best hand on the flop? How often do you think it will stay the best hand? If you are behind, how many outs to you give yourself? How likely is it that this flop hit at least 1 limper?

I would bet the 2nd hand.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, it kind of is. It is very bad if he bets this spot every time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Every time? Sure someone might pick up a pattern, but assume this is the first situation like this at the table, is betting that bad?

[Piiop]

Well, how good do you think is hand is at this point? Sure, it was great preflop, but now we're out of position with A-high and tainted outs.

What good comes from betting here?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, how good do you think is hand is at this point? Sure, it was great preflop, but now we're out of position with A-high and tainted outs.

What good comes from betting here?

[/ QUOTE ]
You're right. We'll only fold total garbage (like Q7). Sure we would like to fold these hands, but they're not many. All other reasonable hands have gut-shots at worst (and will be able to call).

[college_boy]

Do you guys typically call the probable flop bet?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys typically call the probable flop bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
I just realised i have to put some more effort in learning how to play overs but yes, I usually call 1 bet. Getting ~10:1 I think that's fine.

[Piiop]

Like me454555 said, I'll usually call 1 flop bet, especially if I'm closing the action.

[HajiShirazu]

I check this flop. This type of flop will always have hit your opponents, you'll never take it down with a bet, not even the 2-3% of the time that would make betting correct, and your outs are dirty w/ no real backdoor chances. Whether to call a bet on the flop depends on the action although check folding wouldn't be the worst thing.
The second hand I would be a little more inclined to bet but not that much, I check that one a decent amount as well. What do you do against a turn raise? It's pretty easy for a decent opponent to put you on the big ace, so I think a bluff raise is a worry here. I'm not saying betting is wrong, you probably do have the best hand.

[me454555]

I'd check it for same reasons I'd check the first. Against 3 opponents I don't expect to have the best hand often enough to make a bet here profitable. I don't want to get raised here.

[The Goober]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check it for same reasons I'd check the first. Against 3 opponents I don't expect to have the best hand often enough to make a bet here profitable. I don't want to get raised here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something I've been struggling with quite a bit in my game.

I understand all the argument for checking the flop sometimes when my AK misses, but there are two problems with this that I have a hard time with. The first is that I feel like if I raise PF (especially from a blind) and then check the flop, thinking players can easily put me on exactly what I have. This means that I could potentially get bluffed/semi-bluffed off of the best hand (most likely on the turn) by an agressive player (or else have to call down a lot with A high). Likewise, I won't get any action if I spike my A or K on the turn (unless I'm beaten).

The other problem is that I feel like I have to balance my strategy for those times when I raise PF with a big pocket pair - since I'm virtually always going to be betting out the flop in these cases.

How do I reconcile these issues?