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View Full Version : Folding in Large Pots


scotty34
04-15-2005, 01:41 AM
OK, I didn't think it was so ambiguous, but I have recently noticed a lot of cases where people are misinterpreting Ed Miller's "Don't fold in a big pot" line. The most recent example was in this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2157763&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=7).

Maybe it's because people haven't actually read SSH yet, and just hear the saying in the forums and follow it blindly, I'm not sure. Please, when you are going to utilize this line, THINK! Do not just do it because Ed says so, think about why you are doing it, and do it in appropriate situations.

When Ed says "don't fold in big pots," the full interpretation of this advice is don't fold in a big pot for 'one' more bet on the 'river' when you have a 'chance' of winning. All three of these conditions are necessary for the situation that Ed is talking about. Just because the pot is big, doesn't mean you should coldcall a cap with AdKd on the river with a Kh Jh Th 9h 9s board. Just because the pot is big, you shouldn't necessarily call on the turn with 55 on a AKQT board. Just because the pot is big, you shouldn't call with 22 on a TT886 board.

These examples are obvioulsy stupid and they were meant to be. The point I am trying to make is think "why does Ed say this?" If a pot is 25BB and it is costing you 1BB to call on the river, you only have to win >4% of the time for this to be profitable. If you don't think you will win this often, fold. Evaluate the situation and try and decide for yourself whether the call is worth it or not. Considerably more often than not, you should call, but that does not mean it should be automatic.

A_C_Slater
04-15-2005, 01:56 AM
You noticed a lot of cases, huh?

Don't you mean this one case perpetrated by a moron calling with ten high on the River to "catch a bluff by those bluffing bluffers raising the flop and turn with seven high"

Why do you assume his idiocy extends to us all?

bottomset
04-15-2005, 02:16 AM
the other thing very often overlooked is how the presence of a caller ahead of you, or players left to act after you can change calls into folds(and sometimes raises)

scotty34
04-15-2005, 03:08 AM
Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2159268&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1) and Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2148808&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)

(the second one may have been sarcasm, I'm not sure, but if it's not, this is exactly why I posted this)

Two other examples of misinterpretation. Would you like me to dig up some more?

Also it is not necessarily idiocy, and I never said it extended to you all. This post was aimed mostly at newbies who may not be correctly interpreting a semi-ambiguous statement.

A_C_Slater
04-15-2005, 03:12 AM
I apologize, you were right. I just reponded to a thread where a guy caught his 3 on the River and called after his A3s busted flush draw whiffed. This was on a paired Queen raised flop and turn board. There was 10 BB's in the pot. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

EDIT: I wrote this before looking at your link, yup that's it. The Macdaddy one. Link 1. I guess I just refused to believe it.

kong98
04-15-2005, 03:25 AM
I think this is an important point! I was making this mistake for quite a while until someone corrected me. Any time the pot was big, I was throwing in a final bet because it was just 1 bet on the river.

Kong98

macdaddy991
04-15-2005, 04:04 AM
Wow I eating major humble pie tonight. Yes the one link was mine, and I am sad to say that it was really shitty play. At least I know how shitty it was and can now only move up. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

scotty34
04-15-2005, 04:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Wow I eating major humble pie tonight. Yes the one link was mine, and I am sad to say that it was really shitty play. At least I know how shitty it was and can now only move up. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You should really not even have to feel like you "ate a humble pie." You posted a hand, gave your own input and thoughts, got feedback from others, and I'm assuming thought more about it. This is how we learn. I say good job to you.

Sorry to use your post as the only link (there are two more I put in a reply now) but it was the only one that happened to be on the front page at the time. It just seemed to serve as a good example of the misconception some may have that I was trying to clear up.

ArturiusX
04-15-2005, 04:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Wow I eating major humble pie tonight. Yes the one link was mine, and I am sad to say that it was really shitty play. At least I know how shitty it was and can now only move up. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me put it this way, everyone when they start has a really silly leak. Mine was playing broadways preflop.

Correct the silly ones, and you go a long way to being a good poker player.