JJ on the button - check this dirty flop?

[pokerstudAA]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.


No one is folding if I bet. Probably going to get check raised. A free card cant hurt here. Everyone has flush draws / gutshots and is going to call.


Turn: (6 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds.

I think I picked up a double gut shot that is all sorts of dirty. I am almost closing the action. Easy.

River: (11 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Good value bet with a flush/ possible higher straight?

Final Pot: 14 BB

[Buck_65]

I like your reasoning for your actions. I'd bet this flop, get check-raised, and curse.

[Pokey]

I'm a tool -- I would have bet the flop. The only card that beats you is a stray king, and nobody took a shot at it. I'm stupid enough to believe that means my hand is good right now. Looking at this hand more closely, I think your check behind is the right move on this flop.

Man, I boof this turn, too. The 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif dramatically increases your outs. Now, three 8s and three Qs make you good, one 8, two Js, and one Q makes you maybe 50% good. That's eight outs where you're going to get at least 4:1 if not 5:1 on your bet here. Add in the times when your Js are good and I feel like I've got enough pot equity to raise. In other words, I've gone from a dumb flop bet to a spewing turn raise. NOTE: I don't think I'm stupid enough to raise this turn if I got check-raised on the flop. I'm not sure, though -- I've yet to fully test the boundaries of my stupidity.

River bet seems like a smart play. The only person who took a poke at this pot at ALL just shut his noise hole; you've surely got the pot equity to bet this river. While nobody that beats you folds to your bet, MANY hands call you down that you beat.

<font color="blue">Edit to say: how do you respond to a raise or check/raise on the river?</font>

[ceskylev]

I don't play 5/10, but...

Flop: Is there a specific reason to be worried about the check raise? If not, I bet, but maybe I'm a grade-A sucka.

Holding JJ, it's hard to be too worried about a made straight. A random King could be floating out there, but I bet and if there are a bunch of callers, I think about checking the turn if it doesn't help me.

River: I'm still not all that worried about the bigger straight. You got bet into on the turn, but when you checked the flop you lowered the betting standards for everyone else. You now beat the punk that was hanging out with K6o. I'd be less worried about the club flush if you hadn't given the free card, but I still bet this.

[Clarkmeister]

I like betting the flop, but this is far from a bad check.

I think raising the turn is a must. You have lots of disinterested callers fishing, a possible best hand and an open ended straight draw when behind. Headsup you call but with all those opponents you must raise. You may even induce some surprising folds since the raise massively overrepresents your hand.

[pokerstudAA]

I see that no one is going to 3-bet with a raise on the turn. Someone might fold a gutshot or 5-outer that can still win.

If the river makes a straight 8 or Q for us I bet unless its one of the diamonds. If the river comes junk - check behind? A think any King hand is calling the river.

What if I river a J - bet? Any Q hit the straight. Check with a J.

[Clarkmeister]

If, after raising the turn, it's checked to me on the river, I'd bet almost any non-ace card, and definitely any that give me a set or straight.

[Felipe]

blind post:


lets say your table is loose/passive. full of calling stations. (and so it appears to me). I like the entire line.
on the turn BB might have picked up a straight draw too. I wouldn't worry about queens hitting on 4th st. because chances are low your opponents have a J (only two left)(hands include Jx, AJ...etc, AJ might raise preflop) And if he has AQ, he has 2 outs for the gutshot (two jacks)

opponent may have hit two pair with 97, T7, K no kicker. A better player might bet with KJ, KQ, KT immediately on the flop- or might attempt a checkraise, considering you raised preflop and the pot is large, and he/she might want to eliminate players.

BB could have flush and/or straight draw on the turn and be betting for value. Any hand like Q /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif, A /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif. When the 8 /images/graemlins/club.giffalls on 5th st i'd bet since the BB checked. BB woudln't check raise b/c he would face the field with calling 2bb cold, and they'd (likely) fold, making him lose money.

I think river bet is fine. Table seems full of fish and you can make some money. If you're c/r, call and show.

(i'm really tired - so I either screwed it up, or overlooked important data)