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PokerBob

04-15-2005, 12:38 AM

villain is 44/15/1.45

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
5 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

rmarotti

04-15-2005, 01:31 AM

I play it the same. That flop is pretty drawless so I like the flop slowplay.

Pokey

04-15-2005, 01:39 AM

Chicken! Bok bok bok! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I cap preflop. SB's 3-bet just says "you are NOT stealing my blind again, jackass." He's frustrated and he's taking a poke at you again. Poke back.

Flop is sneaky -- I like it.

Turn is standard trap -- again, good stuff.

I cap the river, though. He doesn't have a set or a straight. YHIG.

rmarotti

04-15-2005, 01:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I cap preflop. SB's 3-bet just says "you are NOT stealing my blind again, jackass."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wildy overconfident read IMO.

Pokey

04-15-2005, 01:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I cap preflop. SB's 3-bet just says "you are NOT stealing my blind again, jackass."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wildy overconfident read IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP says: "villain is 44/15/1.45"

I think my read is pretty solid here. Then again, I've always been overly optimistic about my hands. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

rmarotti

04-15-2005, 01:48 AM

Villain's loose, but he's hardly a maniac. I see what you're saying but I think a PF cap is a bit much. It's fairly close though.

Pokey

04-15-2005, 01:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain's loose, but he's hardly a maniac. I see what you're saying but I think a PF cap is a bit much. It's fairly close though.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I'll give you that one; chalk it up to slightly different play styles. Do you like capping the river, though?

rmarotti

04-15-2005, 01:58 AM

I don't see how capping the river is possibly making us money.

Pokey

04-15-2005, 02:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how capping the river is possibly making us money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You hit top two pair with a board that has no flushes and only highly unlikely straights and you don't think you're good more than half the time?

I'm feeling like AJ and J9 don't three-bet this preflop in the hands of any reasonable player, and they don't keep firing on the flop and turn. Also, I can't help but think that KK, QQ, and TT three-bet the turn. I'm thinking you see lots of hands like AK /images/graemlins/club.gif overplaying the river out of frustration or trying to buy the hand on a scare card. I just have to say that on the river YHIG.

Chairman Wood

04-15-2005, 02:39 AM

I like bob. Capping is not good here.

Clarkmeister

04-15-2005, 02:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm feeling like AJ .....(doen't) three-bet this preflop in the hands of any reasonable player, and (it doesn't) keep firing on the flop and turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think any decent player auto 3-bets preflop with AJ and is almost certainly firing at both the flop and turn. I'm not commenting on the play of the hand other than to just point out that I think your assumption here is incorrect.

Chairman Wood

04-15-2005, 02:51 AM

Does anyone just call his river lead?

Pokey

04-15-2005, 02:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm feeling like AJ .....(doen't) three-bet this preflop in the hands of any reasonable player, and (it doesn't) keep firing on the flop and turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think any decent player auto 3-bets preflop with AJ and is almost certainly firing at both the flop and turn. I'm not commenting on the play of the hand other than to just point out that I think your assumption here is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got AJo facing a preflop raiser with a board that has two club honors. You've got four outs to the straight (one puts a flush on the board) and six incredibly murky outs to one pair. The pot has 4.5BBs and you're out of position. You fire a second shot at this one? Personally, I'm REALLY not sure I have the huevos for that move.

Edit to say: even if AJ is a possibility on this board, I'm still capping the river. In my opinion, YHIG too often for that final bet to be -EV.

Clarkmeister

04-15-2005, 02:59 AM

You have to call if you check, you may as well bet your AJ to try and get some small PP to fold.

I'm not saying just call, I'm just suggesting that you can't ignore AJ as many players, not just me, would play it exactly the same through the turn bet.

Really, what concerns me is that you don't think AJo is a routine and easy 3-bet from the SB against an open raiser on the button.

Pokey

04-15-2005, 03:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Really, what concerns me is that you don't think AJo is a routine and easy 3-bet from the SB against an open raiser on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right -- faced with a blind theft, 3-betting PF from SB is standard for AJ, but pretty well rules out J9. I guess I ran two thoughts together in my mind, which, better phrased, were: "I don't see AJ or J9 having this particular betting pattern, PF, flop, and turn."

Regarding your comments about AJ, you're basically saying "good for a call, might as well bet." So, you're AJo, you fired another (increasingly desperate) missile at the turn, and this time you get raised. Doesn't that just scream "TRAP" to you? I think many players (certainly not all, but many aggressive ones) let the hand go at that point, rather than calling the second big bet on the turn.

Or am I just digging my Hole of Ignorance even deeper now? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Clarkmeister

04-15-2005, 03:08 AM

Well, the beauty of 3-bet, lead, lead is that when you have your overcard and gutshot on the turn you've now made the pot so big that it's not a mistake to call once you've been raised. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

PokerBob

04-15-2005, 08:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
villain is 44/15/1.45

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
5 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt pretty good about the way I played it, but when he 3-bet the river my heart sunk.

He shows AJo for the runnerrunner straight, and I started to weep. I suck.